Pieces of entertainment that made you want to punch someone.

Sashi · Post by **Sashi** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:01 pm

"We are Nerds!" jokes aren't the problem. Troy and Abed do lots of "We are Nerds!" jokes and it's fine. Good, even.

The problem with Big Bang Theory is that the protagonist character is a self loathing nerd. The best example of this is Secret Agent Laser Obstacle Lunch. It's a nerdy activity, enjoyed unironically, and a decent physical-comedy joke. But the "big laugh" is Leonard calling them stupid.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:50 pm

The self-loathing thing isn't necessarily a problem in and of itself, since not all character quirks on a show can or should be likable ones. The part where it gets ugly is how the self-loathing kinda seems to be conflated with self-awareness whereas the most unrepentantly nerdy character is what you would get when you take popular misconceptions of Aspergers, OCD and narcissism and combine them into one character. And of course, given that BBT characters are only allowed 2-4 real character traits each, that means there isn't too much else left to either character, and having all interactions dominated by such traits means that the show ends up making some pretty gross observations about human interaction from time to time.

If anything though, I think the attention the show's focus on nerds sometimes distracts from how weirdly cynical the show can get in general, and rather than making that seem more "fair" to me, it just makes the show pretty uncomfortable to watch.* I mean, there is seriously an episode where Raj, a character who is Indian, from a wealthy family and lacks the ability to talk to women unless he's had enough to drink starts dating a deaf woman who turns out to only be interested in him for his money. In other words, they found a way to combine nerd jokes, Indian jokes, deaf jokes AND gold digger jokes into one episode, with the B "plot' being that Sheldon has started letting his d20 make all his mundane decisions for him. And of course, there's a laughtrack punctuating the worst bits just in case the writing alone wasn't enough to make you lose a bit of faith in humanity.

*Mind you, I like a lot of shows that truck in offensiveness, as long as they're pretty clear eyed about it. For example, I routinely watch Archer and occasionally watch Always Sunny In Philadelphia, but those are two shows that have no illusions regarding the (in)humanity of their leads.

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:58 pm

I hate that show.

I've been trying to define exactly what about it I don't like, but it's something of the gestalt rather than any specific.
I've seen a few episodes, which is something I can't say the same for Seinfeld or Friends, but I rate BBT along the same level as How I met Your Mother.

Shit Tier.

Sashi · Post by **Sashi** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:24 pm

My hatred of the show crystallized when I came up with the phrase "Nerd Minstrel Show"

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:27 pm

The only episodes of BBT I've seen just have a laughtrack on loop with the occasional few second delays. It's quite possibly the worst example of laugh track abuse I have ever seen anywhere. It's painful beyond words.

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:15 am

nockermensch wrote:The Dreamers' trilogy.
Just read the reviews. Apart from an occasional troll or shill giving it anything better than 1 star, the consensus is clear. This is pain and boredom made into book form.

To make it slightly worse for me, I got the books as a well-meaning gift from someone who knows that I like fantasy stories, so there were some awkward moments at the obligatory "did you enjoy the books?" question.

Ooo. There's a blast from the past. You can actually watch his/their slide from good series, to good series to... decent rehash of the original to.. wow, are we really doing this again?, and yet again(with Redemption)? And then Dreamers happened, and it was yet again the same shit, and everything interesting had been sucked out and replaced with carbon copies.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:01 am

Voss wrote:
nockermensch wrote:The Dreamers' trilogy.
Just read the reviews. Apart from an occasional troll or shill giving it anything better than 1 star, the consensus is clear. This is pain and boredom made into book form.

To make it slightly worse for me, I got the books as a well-meaning gift from someone who knows that I like fantasy stories, so there were some awkward moments at the obligatory "did you enjoy the books?" question.
Ooo. There's a blast from the past. You can actually watch his/their slide from good series, to good series to... decent rehash of the original to.. wow, are we really doing this again?, and yet again(with Redemption)? And then Dreamers happened, and it was yet again the same shit, and everything interesting had been sucked out and replaced with carbon copies.

Oh god yes.

The Beglariad? Good. Malloreon? Good. Belgarath and Polgara's books? Good.

Elenium? REALLY FUCKING GOOD.

Tamuli? THIS is where he starts sliding downhill.

Eddings did great dialogue and likeable characters, but eventually he just started phoning it in.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:11 am

Yeah, they're all "Reluctant hero kills evil god using big blue gem", but with characters that make for an enjoyable read. I agree with your judgement on the quality as well. Elenium was hard to beat.

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:31 am

Oh geez, the Dreamers books. Pure fluff, and then he goes and retcons the whole series away at the end. >.<

nockermensch · Post by **nockermensch** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:56 pm

Re:The Dreamers
I got that the idea was pretty much "Camelot (with assorted gods on their side) vs. the Zerg Tyranids Bugs", and Blizzard Games already had warmed me up for that. So the premise was at least interesting.

But the execution is terrible. There's no sense of danger, anywhere, huge portions of exposition are repeated almost verbatim when characters explain everything that happened so far for any newcomers and then again from another point of view and by book two you get what will happen until the end (SPOILERS: each one of the elemental gods will destroy the swarms with an elemental based catastrophe). The characters, who come from distant and diverse countries in a fantasy world, all speak in something akin to weak sitcom dialogue and beneath the thinnest "cultural" differences, all share the same values (the modern western ones). The language used is boring and repetitive - I had the urge to punch something any time I read the word "breastworks" again.

Oh, there are children gods, too, being cute and adorable. I get that moé is a powerful universal force, but it requires talent and knowledge to work. If The Dreamers were a comedy anime series by say, studio Shaft or J.C.Staff, then it could possibly work. Instead, you have the book equivalent of kid Anakin from the Star Wars prequels, times two or three (I forgot how many cute kids are there, and don't want to remember).

That series actually had me throwing the book across the room once. I always thought that was just a figure of language, but The Dreamers proved me wrong.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:10 pm

Really, I tried rereading Belgariad and I couldn't get into it.

The only book of Eddings that I've actually read a second time and enjoyed was "The Redemption of Althalus."

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:27 pm

Cynic wrote:Really, I tried rereading Belgariad and I couldn't get into it.

The only book of Eddings that I've actually read a second time and enjoyed was "The Redemption of Althalus."

I can understand that- I can't identify or deal with the main character as his whining anymore. My favorite is still the Elenium, since it largely involves people acting appropriately to their chosen career and what they know about the situation. Its sequel series still pisses me off a bit though. Utter rehash and some really stupid conceits.

I would have like Redemption better if it hadn't come after the Mallorean and the Tamuli series, because it hits too many of the same notes. But it is better for being self-contained and having fewer generic stereotype characters to keep track of.

Post by **fbmf** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:19 pm

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Deliberation on whether or or not these boards attract fascists has been moved to the Annoying Questions thread, where a quasi related discussion was already in progress.
[/TGFBS]

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:06 am

Google has somehow managed to make youtube comments even more obnoxious.

tussock · Post by **tussock** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:31 am

:gross:

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:37 am

Does anyone else have a problem with YouTube signing you out constantly?

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:00 am

sigma999 wrote:Does anyone else have a problem with YouTube signing you out constantly?

Only in the last day. If it persists, I might say yes, as is, I'm willing to call it a temporary problem.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:49 am

Okay, so, while the ending to the 2005 Producers remake still hasn't dethroned Mask of the Betrayer as worst ending ever, it has now definitely occupied a spot in the top 10.

The remake was pretty terrible but the ending completely cinches it as one of the most terrible movies ever. Seriously, Max and Leo become friends and find success and redemption? What the fucking fuck? That's like an ending to Glen Glengarry Ross where Williamson decides that he's been riding Shelley's ass too hard and decides to keep his secret to protect their friendship even at the cost of his job.

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:35 am

I just saw the 2011 production of The Tempest. That was funny and entertaining.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:48 am

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Okay, so, while the ending to the 2005 Producers remake still hasn't dethroned Mask of the Betrayer as worst ending ever, it has now definitely occupied a spot in the top 10.

I don't know, I rather liked the ending where I devoured my companions and the universe. It felt very good.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:32 am

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Okay, so, while the ending to the 2005 Producers remake still hasn't dethroned Mask of the Betrayer as worst ending ever, it has now definitely occupied a spot in the top 10.

The remake was pretty terrible but the ending completely cinches it as one of the most terrible movies ever. Seriously, Max and Leo become friends and find success and redemption? What the fucking fuck? That's like an ending to Glen Glengarry Ross where Williamson decides that he's been riding Shelley's ass too hard and decides to keep his secret to protect their friendship even at the cost of his job.

I only saw the remake and enjoyed it as a one-off silly comedy with singing in it - a movie about a stage show, rather than a movie adaptation of a stage show. Worth renting. So how does the original end?

LeadPal · Post by **LeadPal** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:11 am

The original ends a little earlier, with Max and Leo producing plays in prison. Both versions have some serious flaws, but they're both funny, and different enough that it's worth watching both.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:15 am

Koumei wrote:
Lago PARANOIA wrote:Okay, so, while the ending to the 2005 Producers remake still hasn't dethroned Mask of the Betrayer as worst ending ever, it has now definitely occupied a spot in the top 10.

The remake was pretty terrible but the ending completely cinches it as one of the most terrible movies ever. Seriously, Max and Leo become friends and find success and redemption? What the fucking fuck? That's like an ending to Glen Glengarry Ross where Williamson decides that he's been riding Shelley's ass too hard and decides to keep his secret to protect their friendship even at the cost of his job.
I only saw the remake and enjoyed it as a one-off silly comedy with singing in it - a movie about a stage show, rather than a movie adaptation of a stage show. Worth renting. So how does the original end?

In the real version, Springtime for Hitler is taken as an irreverent comedy and is a smashing success. Since Max and Leo have sold more than 100% of the profits to multiple investors, they are guilty of fraud and everyone knows it. They go to prison. The final scenes are of them convincing fellow convicts to put on a show and collecting financial backing from the warden and guards.

The Mel Brooks version of The Producers is basically a perfect movie and I don't know how you could possibly improve on it.

-Username17

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:28 am

Yeah, that's the one I saw. It's not in my top movies of all time, but I certainly enjoyed it. I'm just wondering how the older one ends that apparently means the 2005 one ruined it.

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:26 am

AFAIK, the major difference is that the new one continues with them being pardoned from prison and living happily ever after or something. I have no idea why anyone would ever feel the need to pull that punch.