How many parties?

[shadzar]

So you meet in a tavern to interview possible members to add to your adventuring party....

what happens to all the others? is there only one party in your world? Are their other groups or parties running around? Is there more than one group of players in the same world?

what happens when they cross paths? Does an NPC party that was declined to join end up "level appropriate"? Have they beaten the players to the treasure?

is there some sort of "Linear Guild" that is out for revenge against the current PC party?

how does any of this fit into your game world?

[Desdan_Mervolam]

I have never ever had a group that interviewed people to fill holes in the party. I have never ever heard of a real group interviewing people to fill holes in the party.

The closest I have heard was in Knights of the Dinner Table when they're taking on hirelings for an adventure when they're sure that an army of minimum wage cannon fodder was the secret to success. And I wrote that off as not being an actual thing because the Knights always do things in a way that is weird and not the way you probably should do things.

If that is actually a thing that happened, then it is a thing that went by the wayside before I got into gaming in the mid 90s during late Second Edition.

[TheFlatline]

The first 30 seconds of this youtube link seem specifically appropriate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIaIdv79Xz4

[radthemad4]

There generally aren't other parties that are adventuring and level up in most campaigns I think, but it might be interesting nonetheless to have some. Other parties could be villains, allies, friendly rivals, etc. One Piece has this, and it works there. This would fit pretty well in something like Eberron I think.

[hogarth]

I've been in at least one game (Savage Tide adventure path) where the PCs were mutual strangers responding to a classified ad posted by an NPC. And in that adventure path, there's actually another party of NPCs who are also working for the same boss.

Come to think of it, there are a fair number of NPC adventuring parties in Paizo's adventure paths. Shackled City, Age of Worms and Savage Tide all have NPC parties that the PCs interact with, for instance.

[deaddmwalking]

On a world-wide level, there are lots of adventurers. In a small area, there may be very few.

In the campaign I'm launching next week, there are few other 'adventuring parties' in the area where the PCs are starting. There are several groups of NPC antagonists, but none that I would qualify as an adventuring party. This campaign, however, is expected to be very limited in geographic scope and occurs in lightly settled wilderness.

In more urban campaigns, I assume that there are several parties. For every three adventuring hooks that I have prepared, the PCs will at most resolve one. For the other two, I assume one got handled by someone else and the other didn't get handled and advances that plot (yielding a sequel plot hook).

Interactions with the other party and setting them up as a potential rival can be good. They can also be used later in an interesting way. Personally, I'm loathe to use them to save the party, but it can be interesting if the party saves them. If the party is having trouble in a particular dungeon and finds the party sheltered further in and in deeper trouble, they can still help each other out - and it's a good way to play up mutual distrust.

A major advantage that adventuring parties offer is their mercenary nature. It's easy to include them as opposition without them necessarily being bad guys. They can even believe (rightly or wrongly) that the PCs are serving the wrong side of a particular conflict. If the NPC adventurers learn that their employer has been misleading them, they can potentially be turned. That type of social interaction is more interesting than 'fanatical cultist #42'.

[Voss]

There generally aren't other parties that are adventuring and level up in most campaigns I think, but it might be interesting nonetheless to have some. Other parties could be villains, allies, friendly rivals, etc. One Piece has this, and it works there. This would fit pretty well in something like Eberron I think.

It is the default assumption in the Forgotten Realms, with lots of adventuring parties running around, and lots of retirees. It goes so far that Cormyr required licenses (and names) for groups of adventurers.

[JonSetanta]

I don't see the problem with PC party encountering another party that they have met before, level appropriate or not, but if the other group is woefully overpowered the players might call foul.

[ETortoise]

I enjoy it when I roll up an adventuring party as a wilderness or dungeon encounter. They give me a way to plant rumors, introduce other parts of the game world ("Their leader appears to be from the deserts of Koth..."), and come up with fun names. So far my players have encountered two. The first were a bunch of bastards but the PCs had numbers on their side and so the two groups passed each other by after exchanging some boasts. The second group were in over their head looting a tomb. The PCs helped them out and ended up poaching one of their members for a henchman.

The world also has plenty of potential henches floating around in it as well. Sometimes people will quit after a bad experience and they're still around as well and can be recruited again if the offer is good enough.

[shadzar]

I have never ever had a group that interviewed people to fill holes in the party. I have never ever heard of a real group interviewing people to fill holes in the party.

were all your players making characters in a vacuum? did you ever have one character that was made, and then others joined and the last player or two having to fill a roll by playing the "missing" type of character?

this is essentially the same thing, though not played out in the game.

also if players DID make characters in a vacuum, ala original D&D before players decided they needed some sort of "party balance" or needing someone to fill these "missing roles" (which seems created the thief), then they had to get together somehow which was probably some bill posted that was seeking adventures for a quest. this is just like interviewing by the king or noble or whoever gives the PCs the quest.

every group has to start somewhere with one person picking up another to go along with their idea, and the group grows for whatever reason from there.

this is a thing that still goes on today.

so you never had other adventurers int he world at all?

[erik]

I don't see the problem with PC party encountering another party that they have met before, level appropriate or not, but if the other group is woefully overpowered the players might call foul.

When we used rival adventuring parties (and they're almost always treated as rivals) they've typically been well received in my RPG group. In fact they're some of the more memorable RPG affairs that are kindly remembered even nearly 15 years later.

[Desdan_Mervolam]

I have never ever had a group that interviewed people to fill holes in the party. I have never ever heard of a real group interviewing people to fill holes in the party.

were all your players making characters in a vacuum? did you ever have one character that was made, and then others joined and the last player or two having to fill a roll by playing the "missing" type of character?

this is essentially the same thing, though not played out in the game.

also if players DID make characters in a vacuum, ala original D&D before players decided they needed some sort of "party balance" or needing someone to fill these "missing roles" (which seems created the thief), then they had to get together somehow which was probably some bill posted that was seeking adventures for a quest. this is just like interviewing by the king or noble or whoever gives the PCs the quest.

every group has to start somewhere with one person picking up another to go along with their idea, and the group grows for whatever reason from there.

this is a thing that still goes on today.

so you never had other adventurers int he world at all?

Most of the time, my groups try to avoid creating characters in a vacuum, preferring to make character whose abilites and personalities combined with each other in useful and interesting ways. But that's not what you're asking. What you are asking is how characters are introduced to a game while the game is in session. And the answer to that is "It depends on the character". This is something that has to make sense to the context the group finds itself in, as well as who and what the new character is. In no situation was there an interview process either in character or out.

Now, this is of course not what you're driving at. Are there other adventurers in the world? For clarity, I am going to assume "People with levels in real classes who go around fighting monsters, hunting for treasure, and otherwise resolving unusual problems that most people cannot handle for themselves, and are not working for covert or overt evil agendas" so as not to include villains, retired adventurers, or members of the local status quo like monarchs or guardsmen. And the answer is yes. Yes, the party is not the only adventurers in the game world. But who cares? The game is not about them, so they only matter when they're rivaling the party towards a goal, or when they create a mess the party has to clean up.

[deaddmwalking]

In no situation was there an interview process either in character or out.

We ALWAYS interview in-character for 'replacement' characters. If you've been traveling with a group for months and somebody walks up and says 'I want to join you guys', how do you know he isn't someone sent by the bad guy to infiltrate your group and murder you all in your sleep?

We try to see the world through the character's eyes, so even if WE KNOW that Sir Nigel is my friend Bob, we don't really know that Sir Nigel isn't an evil assassin. So we ask him questions, and if his character is kind of a jerk and/or a bad fit for the party, we won't let Sir Nigel join us. But that part is usually worked out OOC - when Sir Nigel is introduced we already know he's going to be 'just what we were looking for'.

Oh, and the term 'quest giver' that Shadzar keeps using just rubs me the wrong way. Talk about hackneyed.

[Grek]

When I'm playing, all the players make their characters together. Usually this done online/via texts or whatever, but we talk about who's playing what so we don't get a repeat of that one campaign when everyone ended up playing a bard.

[ubernoob]

that one campaign when everyone ended up playing a bard.

Continue...

[ishy]

Here is the all Monk party: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=302550#302550

[shadzar]

The game is not about them, so they only matter when they're rivaling the party towards a goal, or when they create a mess the party has to clean up.

do tell. what kind of mess could the non-player adventuring party create that the player party would have to clean up?

how do they rival them? actively stop them on their goals? beat them to a dungeon and clean it out before the players get there? how often does this happen? how often does this happen before the PCs begin hunting down the "rogue" adventuring party to stop them? how does the world view the player party if they DO try to stop them?

do they take the jobs the player party didnt take while on one so that when the player party returns to do another one, some are no longer available?

do the end up competing in the same dungeon, or work together towards the end goal? did they meet on the way, or was the weary king covering all angles by hiring multiple groups to go out at the same time to save his daughter? who gets the reward when parties group together like this?

Oh, and the term 'quest giver' that Shadzar keeps using just rubs me the wrong way. Talk about hackneyed.

someone else used the term, i am just using it from them. go bitch at them about it, or coin a better one.

[Desdan_Mervolam]

Shadzar, this is BASIC adventure-craft.

Maybe somebody else found out about the same prize as you did and is trying to get there before you do. Maybe they're bad people who are going to misuse the macguffin or maybe they are just going to make your expedition fail because you're not the ones getting the treasure.

Maybe somebody was hired to do the job you're being hired for, or they went on their own volition, and due to luck, hubris, just getting in over their heads, or a combination of the three they never came back. Maybe they're dead, maybe they're trapped or imprisoned, or maybe they're still there in the process of taking over something.

But ultimately, the answer to all of that is "Depends on what the party does in the situation, and whatever is the most interesting outcome". If you think it would be interesting to look at the implications of the party declining a plot hook, by all means do so.

[Grek]

that one campaign when everyone ended up playing a bard.

Continue...

We had a grognardy GM who had been complaining about his other games "taking too long to get to the action" and being "full of munchkins." To solve this issue, he banned all full casters and declared that anyone taking more than 30 seconds to decide on their action in a turn would get a cow dropped on them.

We ended up having:
-A standard PHB swashbucklery bard played by the guy who hates splatbooks.
-A dragonfire inspiration kobold played by our resident dragons fanboy.
-A dragonacid* inspiration bard, played by me.
-A UA divine bard, played by the girl who would only play dwarven clerics named Urist.
-A sublime chord, played by the one dude who would always show up 2 hours late.

The DM was running a Tomb of Iuchiban inspired dungeon and it was pretty much exactly as much of a clusterfuck as you'd imagine a trap-heavy dungeon without a single rogue in the party would be. The kobold player (who was constantly bitching at me for stealing his idea) got the clever idea to "outrun the blades" on a whirling blade trap and got splattered when he rolled a 2 on the Reflex save to dodge the blades. The PHB guy, upon seeing this, declared that he could do better and rolled a 3. He also got splattered. Cue facepalms. The adventure only went downhill from there.

*I took some kind of black dragon ancestry feat that let you swap the fire for acid.

[shadzar]

except you have to look at is as possible for the game world, unless you are palying a board game.

what does the DM do when tehre is more than one party? do he have them interact or stay far away from each other or just kill off the non-player party to let the players shine?

who do the players act.

it is something that needs to be given though ina WORLD of adventurers with these mega cities.

it strains credulity that out of so many with so many leveled NPC, that none are another adventuring party and EVERYONE is just a stationary set piece for the players to run into or actively opposing the PC for plot.

[infected slut princess]

LOTS OF PARTIES OMG LOL

Let's face reality. If there are not a bunch of other parties running around, your campaign is probably kinda crappy. The PC party should get the fun of fighting some other parties, rescuing some other parties, avenging some other parties, admiring some parties, hating some parties, and competing with parties. And other stuff. Whatever, I don't care.

And it's cool if you meet a bad-ass party that is pumped up to be really awesome, but at some point later the PC party can overcome something they could not. Or the PC party fights them and wins when earlier they would have lost.

I mean, if the PCs are going into some crazy dungeon, it is awesome to have one or more competing parties running around. Eventually, they have to fuck each other up. They fight over treasures and conflicting goals. They join forces to defeat a big fucked up monster, then betray each other. It is awesome. Thinking about it makes me want to play a game right now.

FACTIONS. Factions are cool.

[Desdan_Mervolam]

what does the DM do when tehre is more than one party? do he have them interact or stay far away from each other or just kill off the non-player party to let the players shine?

You ignore them, until they become relevant to your campaign.

[shadzar]

what does the DM do when tehre is more than one party? do he have them interact or stay far away from each other or just kill off the non-player party to let the players shine?

You ignore them, until they become relevant to your campaign.

so when both meet up in the Magic Mart and start arguing over which team gets the X. is that a good time to start worrying about it?

are adventuring parties all just going in and out of Magic Mart trying on scabbards and getting sized for magic armor?

it is Magic Mart after all so it must attract a LOT of customers right?

your method sounds like less of something you have planned out for in advance and more on the fly as if you were going to make a "ruling" on it rather than follow some "rule" that players were given in advance or something. it almost sounds like DM Fiat.

[Desdan_Mervolam]

On the contrary. You don't put anything in a game without a plan for it. You have to ask yourself who this other party is, why you want them to want to buy items out from under the party and what you're going to do with that other party in the future.

You could, of course, use this encounter to establish that the marketplace the party is in is large, metropolitan and frequented by other high-power adventurers, but it's kind-of a dickish way to go about it. You should watch how your party reacts to this NPC group, and possibly consider using them again later. It could be fun to have them bump into that group again later at the tavern and possibly have the NPCs buy the party drinks to try to make amends. Or possibly have a tavern brawl break out over hard feelings from earlier.

Or you could have that group turn up later in any of the scenarios that were mentioned earlier in the thread, with the added twist that now the PCs know who these guys are.

[shadzar]

On the contrary. You don't put anything in a game without a plan for it. You have to ask yourself who this other party is, why you want them to want to buy items out from under the party and what you're going to do with that other party in the future.

if Magic Mart exists, these reasons are self-evident. everyone CAN freely buy magic items, so everyone DOES. they are just inhabitants of the world. you HAVE to HAVE mass parties of adventurers to make any sense that a Magic Mart would exist, because who is buying all these magic items? obviously not kings as they would have their own crafters not going out amongst the commoners to get theirs.

for a place to be open to do business, it must have customers frequently enough, so whether for plot reasons or just because you designed a world with Magic Mart, there has to be plenty of adventurers other than the PCs to sustain Magic Mart's existence.

and people jsut normally will fight over items, tis the season and all that where you can see that happening ALL the time as there is not enough to go around of specific items.