Character Optimization request thread.

NineInchNall · Post by **NineInchNall** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:41 pm

So for the cleric I'm DMPCing for the benefit of my Age of Worms group, I'm doing a Dweomerkeeper/Shadowcraft Mage thingamajig. The question is this:

Which do I bring online first, Supernatural Spell or Shadow Illusion?

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:47 pm

Ice9 · Post by **Ice9** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:12 pm

At 3rd level, a Barbarian is actually pretty good. Sure, at later levels they run into issues, but for the first few you've got the "reach weapon, Power Attack, done" thing going as well as anyone else, with Rage being a larger bonus than most classes can muster.

Simple combination:
Human Barbarian 3, Strength 18->20, Cha 12
Unnatural Presence (trait), Intimidating Prowess, Power Attack, Cornugan Smash, Quick Reflexes (rage power)
Gear: +1 Lucern Hammer, Scary Tattoo (intimidate tool)

So you hit people for d12+14 and auto-intimidate most of them, and you have a reach weapon with two AoOs. If you can get a decent Dex too, then go Barbarian 2/Fighter 1 instead, take Combat Reflexes, and take something else as the rage power.

That's maxed for 3rd level though - if the game is going to continue longer, than Strix is better. I don't think you need Scent yet (not many invisible things at 3rd level). Stand Still - I've tried, and it doesn't impress me - if you're a primary damage dealer, you're just putting things off for a round. If you're not ... then something has gone wrong with your build.

At higher levels, if you get a source of fatigue-immunity, then you can Rage Cycle, meaning you turn your rage on and off every round, so that 1/rage powers become 1/round powers. Spell Sunder is pretty nice this way.

NineInchNall · Post by **NineInchNall** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:20 am

ubernoob wrote:supernatural spell 1/day for raise dead etc. Cleric 5 (Church inquisitor whatever) / dweomerkeeper 4/ scm 3 / dweomerkeeper the rest.

Yeah, the utility of being able to raise peeps for free is a rather strong pull, but how are you getting raise dead down to a standard action casting time? Unless you actually mean revivify?

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:28 am

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:46 am

Is it possible to min-max in Microlite 20? I want to play a cleric archer/beatdown build -- if I give in to a couple of friends' nagging -- but the DM insists on core-only, start at level 1, high lethality. But right now it doesn't look to be all that viable.

Antariuk · Post by **Antariuk** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:08 am

I think by being a cleric/whatever you already chose the best option available, at least that's what I remember from the couple of oneshots I ran a few years back. A 5th level fighter vs. a fighter 1/cleric4 is so one-sided it's not even funny anymore. I gave up on M20 it since lots of people re-incorporated additional d20 rules to deal with the unavoidable questions, most of which introduced by the use of spells, while still claiming to play the "pure" experience.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:05 pm

You can multiclass in M20? What the hell?

While we're on the subject, how do extra attacks work in that system? It looks like you just get an extra attack when your absolute bonus reaches the +6/+11/etc. breakpoints. This seems abusable. But on the other hand, it looks like the number of your attacks caps out at three, anyway.

And how does the above system work with two-weapon fighting? Do you use each weapon for each 'normal' attack or are those two attacks the only ones you get, ever, while further attacks just use one weapon?

Antariuk · Post by **Antariuk** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:16 pm

The core document just says that fighters and rogues take -2 for attacking with two light weapons in the same round. Since it doesn't say that you can only do that once your total bonus is +6 (and because the 2-weapon paragraph precedes the BAB paragraph), you can totally attack with +4/+4, -1/-1 at 6th level.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:41 pm

Okay, so where's the smoking gun that says that you can multiclass? And what's the cap on iterative attacks? It only gives up to a -10, so I'm assuming three. Also:

Fighters and Rogues can use DEX bonus + Level as Melee attack
bonus instead if wielding a light weapon. Fighters and Rogues can
wield 2 light weapons and attack with both in a round if they take
a -2 penalty on all attack rolls that round.

It doesn't say that you can do that more than once, either.

Antariuk · Post by **Antariuk** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:58 pm

I don't know if it's a hard rule from somewhere, but doesn't specific trump general? It only specifies "in a round", not the number of attacks, which makes sense because the number of attacks is defined in the paragraph below it. However, since the Core document only tells you so much this is something you have to figure out with your GM I guess.

Do you guys plan to create a real game, as in more than two sessons?

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:46 pm

There's supposed to be a majority vote on whether the group starts at level 1 or at level 6 or so. It looks like level 1 is going to win, though.

The game is supposed to last for quite awhile, but I'm cynical on these promises. Especially for rules-light games.

Also, the DM said that we can use Microlite11 rules if we want to. There's some big cheese potential here, I think, but I'd like to hear you guys' opinion.

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:13 pm

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:27 pm

Beatstick Cleric, Druid with Natural Spell, Domain Wizard.

You don't need fancy tricks or any specific WBL-burning item for any of those. Everything that's necessary is on the SRD.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:33 pm

Are we talking PF or 3.5E? Regardless, halfling hurler isn't in either of the SRDs.

If you're going just by the 3.5E SRD, you can play a straight-up blaster cleric with the Charm and Madness domains. Take the Thaumaturgist prestige class and abuse the shit out of planar ally. Alternatively, if you got the feats and stats for it, feel free to pick up cleric archery. As an elf, your feats go into Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Craft Wondrous Item, and Precise Shot at 1st, 3rd, 6th, and 9th level. Craft Wondrous Item is non-negotiable for a feat, by the way.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:41 pm

Halfling hurler is the flask rogue right?

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:34 am

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:20 am

At level 8 you're probably best off with a wand of blink, boots of speed, and a bag of holding if you can afford it (otherwise you need to figure out where to store all those flasks: each one weighs a pound). Just remember to max out UMD and take your rank of SoH.

(deep halfling rogue 8; PBS, Rapid Shot, TWF)

Strung Nether · Post by **Strung Nether** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:39 pm

I'm involved in a skull and shackles pathfinder game, and I am the wizard along with a cleric and two melee things. I'm a conjuration wiz elf with improved init as my first feat. I was thinking of going into necromancy for flavor, even though the cleric can do that better than me if she wanted to. My main question is how to sandbag effectively when the DM is of the "pathfinder power-attack is fine, 3.5 powerattack was broken" variety. I am not very familiar with the pathfinder spells.

edit: I now realize that this might not be a general "optimize my character pls" thread and more of a specific "help this one guy out" thread. If that's the case, can we make a general "general character optimization" thread where people can post requests that don't exactly warrant an independent thread?

Orca · Post by **Orca** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:46 am

Spells which temporarily disable enemies but which still leave them to be killed later by your melee guys should work - L1 color spray, L2 create pit or glitterdust, L3 stinking cloud or aqueous orb, etc. Create Pit creates an extradimensional space so it still works onboard ship, and indeed has odd shenanigans possible.

If that's too effective, you can sandbag by placing them cautiously or casting a lot of defensive spells instead.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:13 am

How can I optimized a pathfinder caster to get swarms of bees as fast as possible, what's the lowest level this can be achieved at?

Can I turn into a swarm of bees?

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:37 am

Absolutely. If wasps are acceptable, and I hope they are, then you can turn your skin into wasps by level 6 with the spell Swarm Skin. It's actually a super awesome spell because all your skin comes off your bones and it turns into a wasp swarm over your bony skeleton. If you're character is a 7th level Witch you can actually vomit wasps for a few rounds before you become wasps if that's something you really want.

K · Post by K » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:49 am

I think Vermin Shape I from Lords of Damned, Vol. 2 is the earliest. It's a 3rd level spell for witches and druids and 4th for Wiz/Sor. Pathfinder shapechanging has no rules against becoming swarms.

I'm sure no DM will deny a palette swap from the wasp swarm monster stats.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:03 pm

Wasn't there a spell thematically feat which reskinned all of your spells? I want to say it was from Forgotten realms, but not sure.

Edit:DYAC.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:51 pm

deanruel87 wrote:Absolutely. If wasps are acceptable, and I hope they are, then you can turn your skin into wasps by level 6 with the spell Swarm Skin. It's actually a super awesome spell because all your skin comes off your bones and it turns into a wasp swarm over your bony skeleton. If you're character is a 7th level Witch you can actually vomit wasps for a few rounds before you become wasps if that's something you really want.

"The wasps stinging your face? That was muh penis"

Man, that is a really creepy spell... it's also odd that your skeleton is left there, rather vulnerable... could a Necromancer ally then animate your skeleton?