Could a rpg like this work ? No samurais, mages, riggers, etc. Just hackers. Netrunner right now has a bunch of interesting hacker subtypes, from on-site infiltration experts, to the classic at home fatty geek, to otaku-like mystics who talks to Ice like sentient beings, to ex-socialites who rely more on connections than sheer skills, and even aggressive freedom fighters.
But how could they complement each other as a functional group ? And how would a typical "virtual run" look like ? Would the game get too abstract if runs happened on full virtual space ? Could runs happen simultaneously on physical and virtual space ?
One thing I thought was having a primary and a secondary niche for each character, where the primary niche was direct related to hacking (so the otaku-like mystic girl above would excel at "fast talking" her way from Ices and giving the group buffs/support, while the recon expert would expert at probing, and the freedom fighter would expert at actually destroying Ice), and the secondary niche was peripherial to hacking ? So the ex-socialite lady above would have Social Connections as his secondary niche, and the Freedom Figher would have Blowing things Up or something ?
Hackers-only RPG based on Netrunner ?
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Hackers-only RPG based on Netrunner ?
Last edited by silva on Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Perhaps the primary niche could be about dealing with different kinds of Ice. So, taking the example from Netrunner, there would exist 4 or 5 types of Ice (Barriers, Sentries, Tracers, Code Gates, etc) and each runner would specialize in dealing with 1 (or 2 types) of them.
It could follow a more generalist method as in Leverage Rpg for example, where each niche is described as a Role. So, you could pick "Killer" as primary role (expert at breaking Sentry Ice) and "Grifter" for secondary role (expert at pulling out cons on victims). With this, you could abstract the necessity for discrete programs as seen in Shadowrun - if you are a "Killer" its implied that you have the necessary programs for breaking down Sentry Ice.
Hmmmm.... interesting.
It could follow a more generalist method as in Leverage Rpg for example, where each niche is described as a Role. So, you could pick "Killer" as primary role (expert at breaking Sentry Ice) and "Grifter" for secondary role (expert at pulling out cons on victims). With this, you could abstract the necessity for discrete programs as seen in Shadowrun - if you are a "Killer" its implied that you have the necessary programs for breaking down Sentry Ice.
Hmmmm.... interesting.
Last edited by silva on Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Username17
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Someone give silva the link to Frank's design process.
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
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TheFlatline
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There already was an RPG that focused on using Netrunner for resolution.
20 years ago. Well, 18 years ago to be precise.
Jesus Christ can't you do *any* research into a game? Wikipedia straight up mentions it in the 1 page writeup on the game.
I mean, Frank posted the cover of the book that did exactly what you were talking about. And you didn't even bother to google it. Come on, a little intellectual curiosity here?
I feel fucking old. All these old games are getting updated and re-released after 20 years for nostalgia purposes and people are like OMFG THIS IS THE NEWEST SHIT EVER!
20 years ago. Well, 18 years ago to be precise.
Jesus Christ can't you do *any* research into a game? Wikipedia straight up mentions it in the 1 page writeup on the game.
I mean, Frank posted the cover of the book that did exactly what you were talking about. And you didn't even bother to google it. Come on, a little intellectual curiosity here?
I feel fucking old. All these old games are getting updated and re-released after 20 years for nostalgia purposes and people are like OMFG THIS IS THE NEWEST SHIT EVER!
Last edited by TheFlatline on Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Oh that was the reason for all the fuss ? Pfff. Using the cardgames mechanics is a bad idea to start with, and if you disagree with that, please gentleman carry the matter on in another thread.
Now, if you have something to add to the thread premise, go ahead. Any idea will be welcome.
Now, if you have something to add to the thread premise, go ahead. Any idea will be welcome.
The traditional playstyle is, above all else, the style of playing all games the same way, supported by the ambiguity and lack of procedure in the traditional game text. - Eero Tuovinen
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TheFlatline
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Okay. Cyberpunk 2020. Which Netrunner is totes based on. It has every element you're asking for and is like 21 years old.
Until FFG got it but not the license to Cyberpunk, and they painted over it with Android setting flavor.
Now if you're asking for an Android setting RPG that's something totally different. And probably belongs actually in the Phillip K Dick Cyberpunk RPG thread, due to the themes Android the board game played on the entire setting.
Until FFG got it but not the license to Cyberpunk, and they painted over it with Android setting flavor.
Now if you're asking for an Android setting RPG that's something totally different. And probably belongs actually in the Phillip K Dick Cyberpunk RPG thread, due to the themes Android the board game played on the entire setting.
Flat, I have CP 2020 sitting on my shelf. Its a very fine game, but not a hackers-only one. Excpt if you know some supplement that convert all the roles (Solos, Medias, Netrunners, Ex-Cops, etc) to pure hacker ones, then it doesnt have anything to do with the premise of this thread.
The traditional playstyle is, above all else, the style of playing all games the same way, supported by the ambiguity and lack of procedure in the traditional game text. - Eero Tuovinen
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
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OgreBattle
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M:tG's designers talk about how some players really get into the story/setting so they design their decks after a certain theme. I fall into that category, so I think of my M:tG deck as having a somewhat coherent narrative to it.
Legend of the 5 Rings is good for that too, as they have their card tournaments actually CHANGE their ongoing story.
World of Warcraft's card game actually has a 'RAID' format where multiple players form a party and compete against a dungeon deck filled with monsters and traps or something.
There's some poker based RPG's I believe, I hear about them every once in a while but never remember.
Legend of the 5 Rings is good for that too, as they have their card tournaments actually CHANGE their ongoing story.
World of Warcraft's card game actually has a 'RAID' format where multiple players form a party and compete against a dungeon deck filled with monsters and traps or something.
There's some poker based RPG's I believe, I hear about them every once in a while but never remember.
While helpful, its kind of obvious, no ? I mean, you have an overlying theme, the you need a multifunctional party with discrete functional niches, some adventure types in mind, etc. But WHAT exactly would those be in a hacker-themed game ? Thats the question, I think.
Also, how to infuse the specific Android Netrunner color/flavour into it ? In the game the runners are classified according to its "faction" (anarchs, criminals, shapers) and to its "nature" (natural, gene-modified, cyborg, etc) then are given some catch phrase like "Hacker Extraordinaire", "Master Gamer" or "Stealth Operative". It would be interesting to have this flavour (or part of it) in the game.
*EDIT* thinking again, perhaps the very factions could be a clue to the hackers primary functions - anarchs tend to expert at destruction, criminal on subversion, and shapers on manipulation/control. ( heh.. this reminds me of Figher, Thief, Mage )
Last edited by silva on Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
lol
RPG inspires card game.... inspires RPG?
RPG inspires card game.... inspires RPG?
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I would be okay with an Android RPG existing. Sure, silva is once again demonstrating incredible ignorance of RPG history here, but cyberpunk RPGs made in the 80s were made in the 80s, and the only one that's been updated since is Shadowrun, which is cyberpunk-fantasy. People interested in just plain cyberpunk have been left out in the cold.
Calling shadowrun updated must be a joke. Aside from (perhaps) fixed target numbers the rest of the rules is reliq from late 80s. And ironically, the broader/generalist approach to skills from the first/second editions was more modern a concept than todays detailed Gurps shopping lists of skills.
And Chamo, I dont see how Im demonstrating ignorance on rpg history here, since no one was able to show me a hackers-only rpg until now, which is the entire point of the thread.
*edit* oh, I woudnt call Android pure cyberpunk. I think its more in line with Ghost in the Shell and Transhuman Space than Gibson or Sterling. And about other cyberpunkish games, there is Technoir and Interface Zero, so the genre is not so dead.
And Chamo, I dont see how Im demonstrating ignorance on rpg history here, since no one was able to show me a hackers-only rpg until now, which is the entire point of the thread.
*edit* oh, I woudnt call Android pure cyberpunk. I think its more in line with Ghost in the Shell and Transhuman Space than Gibson or Sterling. And about other cyberpunkish games, there is Technoir and Interface Zero, so the genre is not so dead.
Last edited by silva on Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:53 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Ok, more ideas.
Perhaps the secondary niche of each character could be the main niches in Shadowrun/CP2020: fixers, solos/sammys, riggers, medias, company men, covert operatives, etc. So in a way it would be a twist in Shadowrun premise: the meat world supporting the Virtual, instead of the contrary.
This means, yeah, you could have enclosed systems that necessitate physicial infiltration, but then it would be covered in a simpler way by the infiltration specialist. Once he is inside he establishes the link and the game goes back to the Virtual, where the more elaborate gameplay takes place (and the infiltrator would participate too). This "infiltration phase" could be similar to "matrix legwork" the decker in SR does when needed - an optional simpler, faster procedure to support the meat world. Only in here, it would be the other way around: a simpler, faster procedure to support the virtual.
So, in the secondary sphere you would have social hackers, infiltrator hackers, muscle hackers, tinker hackers, fixer hackers, etc. And you could have a basic central mechanic for resolving each of these "sub-systems".
Perhaps the secondary niche of each character could be the main niches in Shadowrun/CP2020: fixers, solos/sammys, riggers, medias, company men, covert operatives, etc. So in a way it would be a twist in Shadowrun premise: the meat world supporting the Virtual, instead of the contrary.
This means, yeah, you could have enclosed systems that necessitate physicial infiltration, but then it would be covered in a simpler way by the infiltration specialist. Once he is inside he establishes the link and the game goes back to the Virtual, where the more elaborate gameplay takes place (and the infiltrator would participate too). This "infiltration phase" could be similar to "matrix legwork" the decker in SR does when needed - an optional simpler, faster procedure to support the meat world. Only in here, it would be the other way around: a simpler, faster procedure to support the virtual.
So, in the secondary sphere you would have social hackers, infiltrator hackers, muscle hackers, tinker hackers, fixer hackers, etc. And you could have a basic central mechanic for resolving each of these "sub-systems".
The traditional playstyle is, above all else, the style of playing all games the same way, supported by the ambiguity and lack of procedure in the traditional game text. - Eero Tuovinen
No.silva wrote:While helpful, its kind of obvious, no ?
I mean, you could go through a full engineering V instead if you really wanted to, but Frank's process captures most of that well enough. The only other real option is flailing.
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
Know what other setting would be cool with the idea of hackers-only characters ? Cybergeneration.
No really. For those who dont know it, its a CP2020 spin-off. Imagine Shadowrun Seattle with only 2 districts, Downtown hi-tech hi-glamour corpzone on one side, and redmond barrens wastes on the other. Then imagine the barrens divided by hundreds of gangs of teens. And then imagine these teen had some mutated ones among them - with the capability to develop super powers interface with the Net naturally like Otakus did in Shadowrun. There is even an obligatory virtual overlay over the whole rich district (that hides poverty and homeless people like in Syndicate Wars).
No really. For those who dont know it, its a CP2020 spin-off. Imagine Shadowrun Seattle with only 2 districts, Downtown hi-tech hi-glamour corpzone on one side, and redmond barrens wastes on the other. Then imagine the barrens divided by hundreds of gangs of teens. And then imagine these teen had some mutated ones among them - with the capability to develop super powers interface with the Net naturally like Otakus did in Shadowrun. There is even an obligatory virtual overlay over the whole rich district (that hides poverty and homeless people like in Syndicate Wars).
Maybe this is a non-sequitor given the discussion so far, but here goes.
I've been thinking of running a Netrunner game. (I use Netrunner not as a brand name, but just as a generic descriptor.) I may be in a bit of a different situation because I'll only have one player and this will be a solely one on one game.
For system I've been thinking about using the Cyberpunk 2020 Netrunning rules, but with dataforts designed the way the first edition version of the game handles them. That arrangement just seemed to have worked better when I've done it in the past. I'll also add in some of the datafort design ideas from Shadowrun 1e, and the first edition CP version of "defense frames" works neatly with the way that fortresses are handled in Shadowrun.
I have CP 2020, CP 1e, Shadowrun 1e, Virtual Realities 1e, and Brainware Blowout to use as resources. I don't want my campaign to be modern. It's going to be 80s Tron style all the way.
Beyond that embryonic set of ideas, I don't have much yet. I'm still kicking stuff around. I need to put something like a teaser game together so I can run one sample adventure and see how it goes.
I've been thinking of running a Netrunner game. (I use Netrunner not as a brand name, but just as a generic descriptor.) I may be in a bit of a different situation because I'll only have one player and this will be a solely one on one game.
For system I've been thinking about using the Cyberpunk 2020 Netrunning rules, but with dataforts designed the way the first edition version of the game handles them. That arrangement just seemed to have worked better when I've done it in the past. I'll also add in some of the datafort design ideas from Shadowrun 1e, and the first edition CP version of "defense frames" works neatly with the way that fortresses are handled in Shadowrun.
I have CP 2020, CP 1e, Shadowrun 1e, Virtual Realities 1e, and Brainware Blowout to use as resources. I don't want my campaign to be modern. It's going to be 80s Tron style all the way.
Beyond that embryonic set of ideas, I don't have much yet. I'm still kicking stuff around. I need to put something like a teaser game together so I can run one sample adventure and see how it goes.
I'd give you the same suggestion as silva: follow Frank's design process. It's a great, streamlined method of design that doesn't sacrifice a lot of rigor.
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.