TOP 3 Badly designed games: Shadowrun and... ?
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TOP 3 Badly designed games: Shadowrun and... ?
I know Shadowrun is an obvious contender here, but what else ? Ive heard Rifts is specially bad too, as is FATAL, but dont know the details. AD&D and Rolemaster ? Cyborg Commando ? That Gygax rpg with weird name ? So, what would the rank of top 3 worst games ever designed look like ?
EDIT: please, lets try to keep the personal insults out this time.
EDIT: please, lets try to keep the personal insults out this time.
Last edited by silva on Sat May 03, 2014 12:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Shadowrun only becomes a contender once you factor in those chucklefucks who thought Stormfront and 5th edition were good ideas. Shadowrun's a lost cause but on the balance the franchise pulled off enough interesting things over its run that it's still a better contributor to the world of ttrpgs than a lot of games I could name. I say that not to excuse Shadowrun's faults but to point out that having your game be chock full of broken and appalling shit that must be excised is a sadly common trait in the world of rpgs.
Last edited by Whipstitch on Sat May 03, 2014 1:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
bears fall, everyone dies
Wait... where do you start?erik wrote:[attempt to derail troll thread from obvious troll]
Contender:
Gary Gygax wrote:The player’s path to role-playing mastery begins with a thorough understanding of the rules of the game
Bigode wrote:I wouldn't normally make that blanket of a suggestion, but you seem to deserve it: scroll through the entire forum, read anything that looks interesting in term of design experience, then come back.
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Re: TOP 3 Badly designed games: Shadowrun and... ?
First of all, fuck you and the barrel of cocks you rolled in on.silva wrote:I know Shadowrun is an obvious contender here, but what else ? Ive heard Rifts is specially bad too, as is FATAL, but dont know the details. AD&D and Rolemaster ? Cyborg Commando ? That Gygax rpg with weird name ? So, what would the rank of top 3 worst games ever designed look like ?
EDIT: please, lets try to keep the personal insults out this time.
Second of all, worst designed game? Nobody really talks about truly poorly designed games. Nobody even gives a fuck about FATAL, RaHoWa or TimeCube: The RPG. Or Gygax's Lejendary Adventures. Those works are shit with no redeeming features and no traction, so we don't bother talking about them.
RIFTS, for example, has always been a completely, utterly fucked system. But there is mild amusement to be had in character building, and the stting, concepts and artwork are pure crack for our inner 12-year olds. Also, KS is insane in amusing ways. Thus, we talk about RIFTS.
D&D 3rd and Shadowrun have enormous traction, and they contain elements of good design; that's why the bad parts make us so angry. Also, the steady slide into shittyness of later editions (D&D 4+, SR 4 after the core book) is obviously more of an issue than some neckbeard publishing yet another shitty fantasy heartbreaker.
TL;DR: We hate because we love.
Every time you play in a "low magic world" with D&D rules (or derivates), a unicorn steps on a kitten and an orphan drops his ice cream cone.
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Re: TOP 3 Badly designed games: Shadowrun and... ?
Spirit of the Century.silva wrote:I know Shadowrun is an obvious contender here, but what else ? Ive heard Rifts is specially bad too, as is FATAL, but dont know the details. AD&D and Rolemaster ? Cyborg Commando ? That Gygax rpg with weird name ? So, what would the rank of top 3 worst games ever designed look like ?
Dungeon World.
Apocalypse World.
You're welcome.
Worst designed doesn't mean anything on it's own. Shadowrun is about 40% utter shit when it comes to game mechanics, but the other 60% is between average to the best the RPG industry has ever seen.
That makes it effectively infinity times better designed than *World, because there is zero actual design present in star world. So when you take the quality parts of Shadowrun and throw out the shit parts you have something with actual value, whereas *World provides literally zero value for your money because making shit up already exists.
That makes it effectively infinity times better designed than *World, because there is zero actual design present in star world. So when you take the quality parts of Shadowrun and throw out the shit parts you have something with actual value, whereas *World provides literally zero value for your money because making shit up already exists.
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
I've the notion that you created this thread in response to Cyberzombie and I's discussion. I don't really appreciate you making a thread to use it for a misguided agenda against the den for whatever raisin.
That said, I'd think 5th edition D&D deserves to go down as one of the worst RPG's in history (due to scope which it'll likely flop and terrabad stories it'll tell).
That said, I'd think 5th edition D&D deserves to go down as one of the worst RPG's in history (due to scope which it'll likely flop and terrabad stories it'll tell).
What I find wrong w/ 4th edition: "I want to stab dragons the size of a small keep with skin like supple adamantine and command over time and space to death with my longsword in head to head combat, but I want to be totally within realistic capabilities of a real human being!" --Caedrus mocking 4rries
"the thing about being Mister Cavern [DM], you don't blame players for how they play. That's like blaming the weather. Weather just is. You adapt to it. -Ancient History
"the thing about being Mister Cavern [DM], you don't blame players for how they play. That's like blaming the weather. Weather just is. You adapt to it. -Ancient History
I'm going to throw in World Of Synnibar. Behold a fan-created superior version of its character sheet and despair.
Shadowrun is not even remotely close to being a member of the three worst games of all time.
Shadowrun is not even remotely close to being a member of the three worst games of all time.
DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.
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That's bullshit, I don't see the NFL anywhere on there. This thread is as good as any to discuss the serious issue of "Has u ever RPG'd with a person of colour?"erik wrote:[attempt to derail troll thread from obvious troll]
Contender:
Has u?
Last edited by OgreBattle on Sat May 03, 2014 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: TOP 3 Badly designed games: Shadowrun and... ?
Fuck you and your blatant trolling, multi forum shilling, and thread shitting. I believe you gain sexual arousal from making threads about roleplaying games and then shilling for apocalypse world. Fuck you, everyone here knows your questions aren't looking for answers and your posts are dishonest and valueless.silva wrote:EDIT: please, lets try to keep the personal insults out this time.
DSMatticus wrote:Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. I am filled with an unfathomable hatred.
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If I climbed up to the top of your ego and jumped down to your IQ I'd kill myself.
Okay that aside, how the FUCK can you be so stupid and arrogant as to actually put games on the "top 3 worst evar" list that you haven't even read unless you're intentionally trying to troll?
That's it. Silva's going on the block list.
Okay that aside, how the FUCK can you be so stupid and arrogant as to actually put games on the "top 3 worst evar" list that you haven't even read unless you're intentionally trying to troll?
That's it. Silva's going on the block list.
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Okay, I really do have the impression that Silva started this thread so that people would shout "Apocalypse World!" back at him and he can have another ten pages of thread to try to contend that AW is actually a great game and it's YOU that suck.
Don't bother trying to impress gamers. They're too busy trying to impress you to care.
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I'll attempt a post that has nothing to do with either Apocalypse World or Shadowrun, since I refuse to feed the troll.
So, given 3 choices (I refuse to have one determined for me), I pick:
1. FATAL - Beyond the jokes about Anal Circumference is a big pile of pointless tables. There's no actual resolution systems or special abilities that even let you do anything in this game. No one who's attempted an ironic session of this game has done anything but roll a character and laugh at their stats.
2. Dungeons & Dragons 4e - I don't dislike this game for what it wants to be (an RPG meant to appeal to video game fans). I dislike it for being bad at it.
3. Dark Heresy - Call of Cthulhu in space is stupid in a setting where supermen in ridiculous power armor eat Cthulhu for breakfast. % roll under in this kind of genre can go perform tests of Anal Circumference upon itself.
So, given 3 choices (I refuse to have one determined for me), I pick:
1. FATAL - Beyond the jokes about Anal Circumference is a big pile of pointless tables. There's no actual resolution systems or special abilities that even let you do anything in this game. No one who's attempted an ironic session of this game has done anything but roll a character and laugh at their stats.
2. Dungeons & Dragons 4e - I don't dislike this game for what it wants to be (an RPG meant to appeal to video game fans). I dislike it for being bad at it.
3. Dark Heresy - Call of Cthulhu in space is stupid in a setting where supermen in ridiculous power armor eat Cthulhu for breakfast. % roll under in this kind of genre can go perform tests of Anal Circumference upon itself.
I dont have to read a game to know it has problems. The bazillion online reviews and discussions available allow me to take a very good picture of most games out there and their problems (or qualities), like Rolemaster over-reliance on table-consulting, Vampire the Masquerade fluff-crunch schizophreny, or Riddle of Steel clunkyness out of combat.TheFlatline wrote:Okay that aside, how the FUCK can you be so stupid and arrogant as to actually put games on the "top 3 worst evar" list that you haven't even read unless you're intentionally trying to troll?
I cite Shadowrun in the title because its the most badly designed game Ive personally played. But Ive heard of others, and would like to know how they compare to SR. Also, have in mind that "badly designed" != "I dont like it", because I do like playing Shadowrun, even if its crap. Though I know its out of liking its setting and also familiarity - if presented to the game nowadays, no cool setting in the world would make me play it.
Funny, Ive always thought D&D4 managed to be relativelly successful at emulating MMOs on tabletop. And even if thats not the case, does it really have lots of broken or unnecessarily clunky sub-systems ala Shadowrun ? Also never got this picture out of reviews and discussions.Sakuya wrote:2. Dungeons & Dragons 4e - I don't dislike this game for what it wants to be (an RPG meant to appeal to video game fans). I dislike it for being bad at it.
*Also, just the fact that D&D4 tries to emulate MMOs is enough to beat Shadowrun, IMO, since its proof it has some clear design goal, something Shadowrun lacks entirelly. What are Shadowrun design goals ? Good luck in finding out.
Last edited by silva on Sat May 03, 2014 9:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Are you actually being serious? AW got some good reviews, and it is a hate crime against RPGs. All a "review" is is some dude telling his opinion on something. There have been a bazillion bad reviews of it here, but that doesn't seem to deter you.silva wrote: I dont have to read a game to know it has problems. The bazillion online reviews and discussions available allow me to take a very good picture of most games out there and their problems (or qualities), like Rolemaster over-reliance on table-consulting, Vampire the Masquerade fluff-crunch schizophreny, or Riddle of Steel clunkyness out of combat.
So, what makes you decide who's review to follow? As far as I can tell, you've got a pretty arbitrary and asinine system for sorting that shit out.
For fucks sake, I've even read some good reviews for FATAL. Does that make it a good game?
You're stupidity level rises with each post you make.
ACOS, the only place AW is viewed in a bad light is here. While Shadowrun is acknowledged as a problematic piece of design all over the internet (it was even a local joke here in Brasil, regarded as one of the most confusing and unnecessarily complex games available ).
See the difference ?
See the difference ?
Last edited by silva on Sat May 03, 2014 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
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I'm a person of color who RPG'sOgreBattle wrote:That's bullshit, I don't see the NFL anywhere on there. This thread is as good as any to discuss the serious issue of "Has u ever RPG'd with a person of colour?"erik wrote:[attempt to derail troll thread from obvious troll]
Contender:
Has u?
Keys to the Contract: A crossover between Puella Magi Madoka Magica and Kingdom Hearts.
RadiantPhoenix wrote:The D&D wizard is a work of fiction that has a completely unrealistic expectation of "uses a book".TheFlatline wrote:Legolas/Robin Hood are myths that have completely unrealistic expectation of "uses a bow".
hyzmarca wrote:Well, Mario Mario comes from a blue collar background. He was a carpenter first, working at a construction site. Then a plumber. Then a demolitionist. Also, I'm not sure how strict Mushroom Kingdom's medical licensing requirements are. I don't think his MD is valid in New York.
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1. Responding to Silva. His multi-forum copyppasta spamming and self-contradictory "revealations" are only understandable if he is a paid shill. They are under no conditions excusable.
2. Exalted. This game fails at every design goal aside from crazy go nuts PC power level. Amazingly each edition moves it further from hitting those goals.
3. The Imagine RPG. Complexity for complexity's sake. This is unfortuneately unplayable, so it doesn't get hipster cred and ironic sessions the way FATAL and Synibbar do.
4. Palladium's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles first edition. I'd call chargen a war crime, but that would be unduly harsh to many infamous war criminals.
2. Exalted. This game fails at every design goal aside from crazy go nuts PC power level. Amazingly each edition moves it further from hitting those goals.
3. The Imagine RPG. Complexity for complexity's sake. This is unfortuneately unplayable, so it doesn't get hipster cred and ironic sessions the way FATAL and Synibbar do.
4. Palladium's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles first edition. I'd call chargen a war crime, but that would be unduly harsh to many infamous war criminals.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
silva wrote:I dont have to read a game to know it has problems. The bazillion online reviews and discussions available allow me to take a very good picture of most games out there and their problems (or qualities)
silva, page 8 of the *-World thread wrote:It would be rather easy if half the people in the discussion actually read or play the damn game, you know. I bet we would not be having this discussion in the first place.
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I can vouch for that. And we were both turned onto RPing by a black dude.Wiseman wrote:I'm a person of color who RPG'sOgreBattle wrote:That's bullshit, I don't see the NFL anywhere on there. This thread is as good as any to discuss the serious issue of "Has u ever RPG'd with a person of colour?"erik wrote:[attempt to derail troll thread from obvious troll]
Contender:
Has u?
Kaelik wrote:Fuck you Haruhi is clearly the best moe anime, and we will argue about how Haruhi and Nagato are OP and um... that girl with blond hair? is for shitters.darkmaster wrote:Tgdmb.moe, like the gaming den, but we all yell at eachother about wich lucky star character is the cutest.
If you like Lucky Star then I will explain in great detail why Lucky Star is the a shitty shitty anime for shitty shitty people, and how the characters have no interesting abilities at all, and everything is poorly designed especially the skill challenges.