Occluded Sun wrote:I don't see how arguing that a group of people are oppressed and are unable to make choices about their lives, and then countering any reports of people who are happy with the choices they made with the assertion that they're brainwashed
DSMatticus wrote:Oh, phew. I was worried for a second there. I'm so glad Occluded Sun reminded me that abandoning your home, job, family, and financial support to go be somewhere else where you do not have a home, job, family, or any sort of financial support whatsoever is so easy. It turns out I don't need to worry about Amish women for the same reason I don't need to worry about minority ghettos - if they were really so bad, people wouldn't live there!
Personally, I don't see how you think you can get away with being such a cherrypicking, strawmanning little shit. Yet here we are.Laertes wrote:The testimonies of women who have left Amish communities are overwhelmingly negative
AND
Their leaving was generally due to fortuitous circumstances, not merely based on discontent
THEREFORE
This can be said to be a more-or-less representative sample of the experiences of women in Amish communities
THEREFORE
The experiences of women still in the Amish communities are probably similarly negative
THEREFORE
Amish communities cannot be said to be desirable models for society
But even on the battlefield you yourself chose, are you suggesting that Amish women are not raised to believe that their place is one of subservience and obedience, or are you suggesting that raising women to believe that their place is one of subservience and obedience isn't sexist and oppressive, or are you suggesting that what those women are taught from birth about their place in society can't possibly influence the choices they make later in life? Because one of those three things has to hold before you can reject the notion that the manner in which Amish women are raised is horrifyingly exploitative of women.
"Brainwashing? LOL don't be silly" is not a counter-argument to the idea that the Amish teach women to think of themselves as second class citizens and that that is evil. The Amish do do that, and it is evil.
