FUCK MICHAEL BAY!

[Josh_Kablack]

Well, specifically, the TMNT origin story as told by the original Eastman and Laird comics (and the 80s cartoon and the early 90s movies) was a parody of established Marvel Comics origins. They were very distinctly exposed to the same radioactive substance that gave Daredevil his heightened senses. Literally, the cannister bounced of Matt Murdock's (although no Marvel IP was named in any of the TMNT work, other details converged) forehead and then rolled into the sewers where they not-yet-mutated turtles had recently been flushed. This pointed out that we (comics readers) had only really cared about the human protagonists and not really given a thought to what happened to a loose canister of radioactive mutagen in the middle of New York city.

And while that is an obscure enough origin reference that it's certainly safe to ditch, there is a tremendous missed opportunity in doing any sort of revision that isn't a similarly subtle rip based on the origins of any one of the recent blockbuster comics book movies.

[Rawbeard]

Look dummy. By any possible fucking metric whatsoever, the transformer's cartoons are higher fucking quality then the movies and higher quality than most fucking cartoons. They often tackled actual real lessons and stories in them. The entire show is actually like a metaphor and shit. They are not "stupid cartoons." Get over yourself. You were wrong. It's okay.

Look dummy, they had an episode about the futility of the entire autobot/decepticon conflict, which was amazing for the time, but ended its bleakest scene with a heroic victory tune, as if the episode was not aware what it did up to this point. This is so much worse than shit, calling it a stupid cartoon is generous.

darkmaster, you are a fucking moron. Last Airbender is amazing, assuming anyone would judge it based on Transformers is shitbrained. And yet here you are... shitting your brain.

[darkmaster]

Rawbeard you are a fucking idiot. You're base assertion is that movies based on cartoons are stupid because cartoons are stupid, you might not think that's what you're saying but that is what you are actually saying. I then replied by pointing out how fucking stupid you are for saying that by mentioning the numerous reasons you are wrong you then proceeded to agree with me that you are, in fact, a fucking moron who cannot access the part of the brain that allows most humans to connect concepts in their minds while simultaneously calling me a shitbrain for saying that thing you admitted was right.

Go to hell.

[Wiseman]

He just called TLA amazing, I don't think his stance is that cartoons are bad, just that certain cartoons are bad.

[darkmaster]

No, the statement he actually agreed with while appearing to be dismissive of transformers in context is actually dismissive towards children's show adaptions which implies children's movies are dumb. So while that might be what he thinks he's saying it isn't what he is, in fact, saying.

[hyzmarca]

Lets be honest here, there was a lot of stupid in the original Transformers cartoon. Carbombya was the worst, but there was a lot of stupid. Really.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Don't forget the Dinobots. One of the worst cases of comic relief in animated history, with Jarjar and Scrappy below them and Antoine and Orko above them.

ME GRIMLOCK.

[hyzmarca]

The Dinobots at least have the advantage of being fucking giant robot dinosaurs that can eat other giant robots.

Jar-Jar would have been tolerable if he was a giant robot dinosaur with a huge sword.

Of course,there's a reason why people prefer the Marvel comics where grimlock is a genius tactician.

But, hey, at least we're not talking about The Beast Within.

We shall never talk about The Beast Within, ever.

[Stahlseele]

And now he is going to rape another piece of childhood memory of an entire generation . .
http://www.theonion.com/articles/michae ... cats,2702/

[Kaelik]

And now he is going to rape another piece of childhood memory of an entire generation . .
http://www.theonion.com/articles/michae ... cats,2702/

Can't tell if not funny joke, or Stahlseele too stupid to know what Onion is.

[Stahlseele]

The onion is for once not making a joke:
http://www.imdb.com/news/ni25449060/

[Ancient History]

Check the date on that article, Stahl. April Fools...2012.

[Shrapnel]

But, hey, at least we're not talking about The Beast Within.

We shall never talk about The Beast Within, ever.

I am so glad I am not the only one who suffered through that.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Does or would Michael Bay's film-making career count as So Bad It's Good?

His special effects are way, way above that of most SBIG auteurs, but I think that you could make a reasonable case that the rest of his moviemaking ability would fall into that category. Once you get past all of the nerdrage. I mean, to me the quintessence of So Bad It's Good are these two things: Sincere ludicrousness and a misunderstanding of and subsequent butchering of storytelling and filmmaking elements. A lot of people also claim that technical ineptness -- which Michael Bay's movies aside from a few odd moments do not really have -- is also a defining quality but I think that it can be waived depending on how strong the other two qualities are.

Like, the animal cracker scene in Armageddon is hysterical. Or Martin Lawrence freaking out over a corpse's breasts in Bad Boys 2. Those are just random weirdass scenes that belong in a Sonichu comic or Ed Wood movie.

[Shrapnel]

Possibly, although I personally would argue not. The Transformer films and TMNT are certainly NOT SBIG, but some of his other films might be, but I haven't seen any of his other films besides those, so I can't say for sure. I DO know that he has definitely not done anything as great as The Room or Puma Man.

[Lago PARANOIA]

I haven't seen The Room, but I have seen Puma Man by way of MST3K and Transformers 1 by way of being a fucking faux-awesome obsessed idiot seven years ago. I'm surprised that you think that Transformers 2 and Puma Man are all that dissimilar once you look past the special effects.

[Shrapnel]

PUMA MAN: Charm, Donald Pleasance, Bad Ass Aztec Dude, Donald Pleasance, silly-in-a-fun-way plot, Bad Ass Aztec Dude, gods chillin' in funky disco ball spaceships, bad 70's hair, Donald Pleasance mispronouncing "puma", the 70's, milk of magnesium, catchy and silly theme music, puma's having the ability to teleport, just all around fun and enjoyable, even WITHOUT the MST3K riffs. As well as Donald Pleasance and the Bad Ass Aztec dude as the Beaver.

TF ROTF: Pain, The Beef, Megan "Imma Porn Star, With the Acting Skills to Boot!" Fox, sorrow, racism, the Twins, the Twins, THE TWINS, OH GOD THE FUCKING TWINS, written during a writers strike, which certainly didn't help, Michael Bay, NO plot, NO charm, NO catchy theme music, NO pumas, NO hair, NO Bad Ass Aztec Dude, NO Beavers, fucking Beef causin' grief, not fun and enjoyable, even WITH riffs. Did I mention the Beef was in it? Because that alone takes away like 32,985,062 points.

[Lago PARANOIA]

All that stuff you're using to demarcate So Bad Its Good is just stylistic flotsam, Shrapnel. Why is 70s hair and Donald Pleasance in a gold suit and ridiculous Aztec prophecies 'fun' stupid while horny robots and gigantic wrecking ball nuts and people going to Robot Heaven 'stupid' stupid?

[Darth Rabbitt]

Why is 70s hair and Donald Pleasance in a gold suit and ridiculous Aztec prophecies 'fun' stupid while horny robots and gigantic wrecking ball nuts and people going to Robot Heaven 'stupid' stupid?

I'll point out that 70s hair and Donald Pleasance in a gold suit and ridiculous Aztec prophecies are all done completely straight-faced in The Pumaman. Horny robots and gigantic wrecking-ball-nuts are not done straight-faced in Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (admittedly people going to Robot Heaven is, but the Robot Heaven bit was not the painful part of it).

Most of the So Bad It's Painful parts of the Bayformers films (and let's face it, there are many) are attempts at intentional humor. If all of the racist humor and mechanical dick jokes and "wacky" parents were cut out of them, they'd still be stupid films, but I could have theoretically derived enjoyment from them. (They'd also be about an hour shorter, and So Bad It's Good movies should be on the short side in the same way you don't want to ruin a joke by dragging it out for too long.)

I think that bad movies should not attempt intentional humor, because bad movies are already jokes to begin with, and it's hard (if not impossible) to make a parody of a parody. To me, So Bad It's Good is unintentional deadpan humor. The enjoyment comes from the fact that the maker(s) thought whatever bad stuff they were doing was genuinely good.

[Laertes]

°
I think that bad movies should not attempt intentional humor, because bad movies are already jokes to begin with, and it's hard (if not impossible) to make a parody of a parody. To me, So Bad It's Good is unintentional deadpan humor. The enjoyment comes from the fact that the maker(s) thought whatever bad stuff they were doing was genuinely good.

This is the crux of it. Most So Bad It's Good movies take themselves very seriously (exception: Rocky Horror) and that's what makes them fun. The emotional response that The Room or Showgirls was seeking isn't laughter, and that's why laughter is the appropriate response to it. When Bay attempts comedy and fails, the appropriate response is a dignified, slightly embarrassed silence.

[Stahlseele]

TF ROTF had ONE GOOD POINT!
Crotchety old Manbot Jetfire as the SR71 "Blackbird"

[Shrapnel]

NO. Jetfire is best when he is an Australian power mushroom or a Macross VF-1S Super Valkyrie, NOT when he is a retarded old man with flatulence problems.