D&D 5e has failed

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:01 am

At this point the D&D brand feels like taking on a restriction with no benefit. Fantasy video games make it big with their own IP's and the creators obviously get more flexibility with how they portray their world and mechanics vs needing to take up D&D tropes and settings.

MGuy · Post by **MGuy** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:38 pm

ACOS wrote:So, AngryDM did a little interview with the guys from Dungeonscape/Codename:Morningstar. All I can do is shake my face-palmed head at WotC.
There's a little "reading between the lines" to do; but it is apparent to me that WotC is pant-shittingly afraid of losing their thorns and bushes.

After reading this all I can think of is that this is yet another opportunity for Paizo to pick up all the loose money WotC seems hesitant to touch.

Insomniac · Post by **Insomniac** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:54 pm

Oh yeah, Pathfinder: The Decent Video Game Because WOTC Is Too Dumb To Pull This Off.

Wouldn't that just be a kick in the head?

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:40 pm

PF seems to be just about the right themes and mood as Dragon Age in that it's not afraid of dealing with mature themes (even if said themes aren't usually handled well) and while Golarion is fairly generic and ripped off from just about everywhere, that just puts it in roughly the same territory as Forgotten Realms in terms of recognizability, but with far fewer dickwaving elder NPCs and the like.

What I'm saying is that a well-executed PF video game would pretty much cement Paizo's domination of the market by pulling in the video game crowd. Of course, I have about as much confidence of that happening as I do of PSG season 2 coming out.

Krusk · Post by **Krusk** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:08 am

Any predictions for the christmas layoffs this year?

My hope is the whole team, but a realistic guess is the author or lead on the dmg is more likely.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:14 am

MGuy wrote:
ACOS wrote:So, AngryDM did a little interview with the guys from Dungeonscape/Codename:Morningstar. All I can do is shake my face-palmed head at WotC.
There's a little "reading between the lines" to do; but it is apparent to me that WotC is pant-shittingly afraid of losing their thorns and bushes.
After reading this all I can think of is that this is yet another opportunity for Paizo to pick up all the loose money WotC seems hesitant to touch.

Which part is supposed to be "loose money"? From what I read, their product is like Hero Lab or any other one of a bunch of other RPG software tools, except it sounds like it doesn't work very well. Am I missing something?

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:32 am

I predict that Mike Mearls and James Wyatt stay on for a year, because those guys are legendary at not getting fired. Unless 5E D&D pulls a warren of rabbits out of their hat Mearls is going down next year -- James Wyatt couldn't be fired even if he took a diarrhea dump directly in the Hasbro CEO's face.

MGuy · Post by **MGuy** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:36 am

hogarth wrote:
MGuy wrote:
ACOS wrote:So, AngryDM did a little interview with the guys from Dungeonscape/Codename:Morningstar. All I can do is shake my face-palmed head at WotC.
There's a little "reading between the lines" to do; but it is apparent to me that WotC is pant-shittingly afraid of losing their thorns and bushes.
After reading this all I can think of is that this is yet another opportunity for Paizo to pick up all the loose money WotC seems hesitant to touch.
Which part is supposed to be "loose money"? From what I read, their product is like Hero Lab or any other one of a bunch of other RPG software tools, except it sounds like it doesn't work very well. Am I missing something?

I'm pretty sure having an 'official' tool for getting characters and whatever together would be worth something. I didn't get the sense that whatever the final product was supposed to be was let go of because it didn't look like it would work.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:24 am

MGuy wrote: I didn't get the sense that whatever the final product was supposed to be was let go of because it didn't look like it would work.

Here's the paragraph in question:

Some have speculated that the deal may have fallen through for other reasons. It’s been suggested that Dungeonscape didn’t meet Wizards’ quality standards. Critics point to the state of the Android and web versions of Dungeonscape that had recently entered beta testing. Matney was quick to dismiss concerns about quality, though he does admit that the Android and web beta testing could have been handled better. With the release of the iOS version of the app delayed while Trapdoor and WotC hashed out the details, Trapdoor wanted to keep the community engaged and so they opened the Android and web beta testing. Matney admits the product might not have been ready for that. He also suggested that the team could have done a better job communicating with beta testers about the state of the application.

So even by their own admission their beta test was a failure.

Insomniac · Post by **Insomniac** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:06 am

Lago PARANOIA wrote:I predict that Mike Mearls and James Wyatt stay on for a year, because those guys are legendary at not getting fired. Unless 5E D&D pulls a warren of rabbits out of their hat Mearls is going down next year -- James Wyatt couldn't be fired even if he took a diarrhea dump directly in the Hasbro CEO's face.

Why is James Wyatt so bulletproof?

Night Goat · Post by **Night Goat** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:13 am

The Lord is on his side.

erik · Post by **erik** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:16 am

No, no, no. It's not that the quality was bad. It just wasn't ready for beta testing. If only they'd communicated better that it wasn't ready for beta to the beta users then everything would have been coming up roses.

I try not to produce shite coding projects, but if I do, I need to crib notes from Trapdoor. That's top notch excuserycraft there.

ACOS · Post by **ACOS** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:38 am

Maxus wrote:"Thorns and bushes?"

I can't say I've heard that one before. Would you please clarify?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoMMmZ6CFO0
One of my all-time favorite commercials.

hogarth wrote:
MGuy wrote: I didn't get the sense that whatever the final product was supposed to be was let go of because it didn't look like it would work.
Here's the paragraph in question:
Some have speculated that the deal may have fallen through for other reasons. It’s been suggested that Dungeonscape didn’t meet Wizards’ quality standards. Critics point to the state of the Android and web versions of Dungeonscape that had recently entered beta testing. Matney was quick to dismiss concerns about quality, though he does admit that the Android and web beta testing could have been handled better. With the release of the iOS version of the app delayed while Trapdoor and WotC hashed out the details, Trapdoor wanted to keep the community engaged and so they opened the Android and web beta testing. Matney admits the product might not have been ready for that. He also suggested that the team could have done a better job communicating with beta testers about the state of the application.
So even by their own admission their beta test was a failure.

My take was that they simply rushed to the beta test while it was still in the alpha phase. I'm guessing there was probably some pressure from WotC on this; otherwise, why do that?

zugschef · Post by **zugschef** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:20 am

Insomniac wrote:
Lago PARANOIA wrote:I predict that Mike Mearls and James Wyatt stay on for a year, because those guys are legendary at not getting fired. Unless 5E D&D pulls a warren of rabbits out of their hat Mearls is going down next year -- James Wyatt couldn't be fired even if he took a diarrhea dump directly in the Hasbro CEO's face.
Why is James Wyatt so bulletproof?

I'd like to know that, too. Dude has been writing stupid shit for WotC since 2000.

Night Goat · Post by **Night Goat** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:21 am

Man, I miss Quiznos. Haven't seen one in years.

ACOS · Post by **ACOS** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:58 am

Night Goat wrote:Man, I miss Quiznos. Haven't seen one in years.

There's one by my house .... in a gas station (much like Blimpie's). I blame it on piss-poor franchise contracts/support (guessing).

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:35 pm

So blurbs are up for an Australian roleplaying convention (our biggest one... which isn't saying much). I have some interesting things to note:

1. Wargames: X-Wing, Malifaux and Warmahordes. GW stuff is GONE :D

2. System games: Jenga, Paranoia, Dragon Warriors, Call of Cthulhu

3. Games Called D&D: Pathfinder Society. That is all.

Seriously. It used to have representation by all the Living _____ games, several D&D 3.X one-off games, and the big multisession D&D "Tournament", where the winning team won a trophy and the rights to design the tournament for the next year. Then in 4E it *rapidly* dropped to just "The Living 4E thing" (which in at least one occasion didn't even end up running*). Now there's no representation from 4 or 5 at all.

It's dead.

That's awesome.

*Technically, there was also one game of 3.5+Tome+Disgaea, run for several sessions by me. Which means "The Gaming Den Tome Stuff" was actually played more than 4E at that convention.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:04 am

But Pathfinder also sucks, nobody wins.

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:03 am

OgreBattle wrote:But Pathfinder also sucks, nobody wins.

Paizo wins. Whether that's good or bad is up to you to decide.

Windjammer · Post by **Windjammer** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:17 am

Insomniac wrote:
Lago PARANOIA wrote:I predict that Mike Mearls and James Wyatt stay on for a year, because those guys are legendary at not getting fired. Unless 5E D&D pulls a warren of rabbits out of their hat Mearls is going down next year -- James Wyatt couldn't be fired even if he took a diarrhea dump directly in the Hasbro CEO's face.
Why is James Wyatt so bulletproof?

Wyatt got promoted to another department. He's been working on MtG story stuff ever since 5e was announced. He has nothing to do with D&D anymore, and will escape the sackings in the wake of 5e's problems. Clever man.

zugschef · Post by **zugschef** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:34 pm

Windjammer wrote: Wyatt got promoted to another department. He's been working on MtG story stuff ever since 5e was announced. He has nothing to do with D&D anymore, and will escape the sackings in the wake of 5e's problems. Clever man.

MtG is doomed.

Schleiermacher · Post by **Schleiermacher** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:41 pm

Nah. Reverend Wyatt won't be allowed to rub Christianity all over it.

Insomniac · Post by **Insomniac** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:22 pm

Windjammer wrote:
Insomniac wrote:
Lago PARANOIA wrote:I predict that Mike Mearls and James Wyatt stay on for a year, because those guys are legendary at not getting fired. Unless 5E D&D pulls a warren of rabbits out of their hat Mearls is going down next year -- James Wyatt couldn't be fired even if he took a diarrhea dump directly in the Hasbro CEO's face.
Why is James Wyatt so bulletproof?
Wyatt got promoted to another department. He's been working on MtG story stuff ever since 5e was announced. He has nothing to do with D&D anymore, and will escape the sackings in the wake of 5e's problems. Clever man.

I didn't know that. The rat jumped ship then just before he got some coal in his stockings. Can't blame him.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:45 am

Emerald · Post by **Emerald** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:03 am

In 5e's defense (and oh how it pains me to say that), the trident has always been a limited-use item:

1e DMG wrote:Trident of Fish Command: This three-tined fork atop a stout rod of 6’ length appears to be a barbed military fork of some sort. However, its magical properties enable its wielder to cause all fish - including sharks and eels but excluding mollusks, crustaceans, amphibians, reptiles, mammals and similar sorts of non-piscine marine creatures - within a 6” radius to save versus magic (this uses one charge of the trident).

Those which fail this throw are completely under empathic command, they will not attack the possessor of the trident nor any creature within 10’ of him or her, and the wielder of the device can cause them to move in whatever direction is desired and convey messages of emotion, i.e. fear, hunger, anger, indifference, repletion, etc. Fish which make their saving throw are free of empathic control, but they will not approach closer than 10’ of the trident.

Fish which school must be checked as a single entity. A trident of this type contains 17-20 charges. It is otherwise a +1 magic weapon.

3e DMG wrote:Trident of Fish Command

The magical properties of this +1 trident with a 6-foot-long haft enable its wielder to charm up to 14 HD of aquatic animals (Will DC 16 negates, animals get a +5 bonus if currently under attack by the wielder or his allies), no two of which can be more than 30 feet apart. The wielder can use this effect up to three times per day. The wielder can communicate with the animals as if using a speak with animals spell. Animals making their saving throw are free of control, but they will not approach within 10 feet of the trident. The trident can be used up to three times per day.

Moderate enchantment; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, speak with animals; Price 18,650 gp; Cost 9,325 gp + 746 XP.