darkmaster quoting Chamomile wrote:"okay, yes, that happens but we're talking about a separate issue right now" and making them look like jackasses if they insist on making the conversation about their tangentially related problems even though the actual reason for having the conversation was to talk about other problems completely
Darkmaster, you need to fuckin' read closer or something. What Chamomile said is completely sensible and appropriate. It is not ambiguous or unclear. If you walk into a conversation about how commonly women are raped insisting that we need to talk about how nobody takes male rape victims seriously instead, you're an asshole. Not because male rape victims not being taken seriously isn't sexist and terrible, but because you are trying to hijack and shutdown the discussion of one egalitarian issue (which is also more serious) with another. We need to talk about both of those things, but using one to derail conversations about the other isn't actually doing that, it's just a rhetorical tactic to make sure nobody talks about anything. And it is incredibly obvious that that is exactly the phenomenon Chamomile is describing. Chamomile is pointing out that you don't need to redefine sexism to shut down those derails, you just need to understand that people who derail egalitarian conversations in bad faith are assholes.Chamomile wrote:Well, if you try to redefine this word than anytime someone brings up racism against whites or sexism against men or whatever, instead of just saying "okay, yes, that happens but we're talking about a separate issue right now" and making them look like jackasses if they insist on making the conversation about their tangentially related problems even though the actual reason for having the conversation was to talk about other problems completely
This is increasingly less true every year. 4chan is pretty fucking old in internet years, and they've been doing the internet hate machine thing ironically for so long that a lot of the irony has just been strangled out of it. You realize /pol/ exists because the site was having incredibly uncomfortable and very serious arguments about minorities being subhuman across the entire site? It's a containment attempt. A containment attempt that backfired, and instead validated those arguments and gave them a reservoir to fester in and spill forth pestilence to the rest of the site. Genuine overt racism and Stormfront bullshit are now just a substantial part of 4chan culture, and there's a surprisingly strong social conservative undercurrent there given the age demographics.darkmaster wrote: But the difference is that, by and large, 4chaners are in on the gag. Very few people on 4chan actually take what goes on on 4chan seriously, are there a few chuckleheads that actually think it’s serious business tm? Probably yeah, but if you look at how channers talk about the board most of them are taking the piss out of it themselves: a sort of “tee hee internet H8 machine lolololololololol.” People on 4chan don’t use the word [EDITED] as a suffix for every group imaginable because they want to insult homosexuals, they do it because LUL INTERNETZ.
The shitty tumblr communities everyone pays attention to are harmfully stupid, but 4chan is stupidly harmful.
It's not a pointless argument, and it's not "peculiar from an outside perspective" - it is counterproductive from a practical perspective. If you claim that murdering white people for being white isn't racism, you will make negative progress towards convincing people whatever the fuck it is you're trying to convince them of and you get nothing in exchange. You haven't made it easier to express the concepts you're trying to express, you haven't made it easier to focus on any particular issues; you just look like a fucking self-parody, and racists are going to hold you up for the world to see and laugh at to score points with their "racism is over; now it's about shitting on white people" arguments.Prak wrote:it's a pointless argument that creates tension between me and people who make damned good points even if their choice of words is peculiar from an outside perspective.