Zero Buzz on 5E...Is It Dead Out The Gate?
Moderator: Moderators
Oh. That's actually a lot better than Raptorians. Bringing in their best MTG artists on these ones, I see. Perfectly fine.
It's certainly a fantasy subgenre that exists (and cat people are probably more frequent in fantasy than elves and dwarves if you ignore D&D fiction.)
I wonder how a D&D that relegated nonhuman player races to a splatbook would fare. I can see the appeal of multiple races in a game like 3.x where designing cool builds is a game in itself, but for rules light (or rules-absent) games saving the page count (and baggage) could be nice.
I wonder how a D&D that relegated nonhuman player races to a splatbook would fare. I can see the appeal of multiple races in a game like 3.x where designing cool builds is a game in itself, but for rules light (or rules-absent) games saving the page count (and baggage) could be nice.
Only if it's a compilation of already extant D&D furry races with maybe a couple new ones. Telling someone to come up with a big pile of original races will result in blandness across the board, particularly if it's furries. I've seen a number of furry settings and if there were more than maybe 4 races, lack of caring was guaranteed. One caveat is that if you don't pretend the vast majority of variation is anything but purely cosmetic and only a couple races are actually distinct in some fashion, but that's not how D&D races roll.Eikre wrote:Come to think of it, a D&D publisher could actually do worse than to write a whole Furry Compendium of hand-crafted animal people.
Cat people, dog people, frog people, armadillo people...
Last edited by schpeelah on Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aarakocra, originally from 2e Dark Sun. 1e Fiend Folio as pointed out by Frank. Handy link to the Dark Sun version.Eikre wrote:What the fuck is an aarocka?
Last edited by Previn on Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-
- Serious Badass
- Posts: 29894
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Nope.Previn wrote:Aarakocra, originally from 2e Dark Sun. Handy link.Eikre wrote:What the fuck is an aarocka?
-Username17
Okay let's put it this way, you remember how in Savage Species, the "Anthropomorphic Animal" races were derived by formula from the existing entries in the Monster Manual? And it was all horseshit because literally not a single animal entry in the monster manual was written to support that transformation? Okay so now just go write that from scratch and try not to host any +6 WIS bat people. Do not spend even a single moment writing about "Parakeet-People Society" or "Sperm-Whale-People in the World" or even "Giraffe-People as Characters," because the goal really is just to have an appendix that people from Anthrocon can use to import the Original Character Do Not Steal that they initially drafted as a persona for chatroom sex.schpeelah wrote:Only if it's a compilation of already extant D&D furry races with maybe a couple new ones. Telling someone to come up with a big pile of original races will result in blandness across the board, particularly if it's furries. I've seen a number of furry settings and if there were more than maybe 4 races, lack of caring was guaranteed. One caveat is that if you don't pretend the vast majority of variation is anything but purely cosmetic and only a couple races are actually distinct in some fashion, but that's not how D&D races roll.
If you're feeling really spicy then you can get some Pangolins, Peacocks, Porcupines, and maybe a host of insect things in which didn't really ever occur to anybody to play but have some interesting natural faculties that you can rift a unique racial ability off of. Because when one of the races is inevitably just a little too good and everyone starts using them when they play Clerics or whatever, it's a lot funnier if they're all literal Dumbo Octopus instead of Obscure Proprietary Trash.
Also you can put Dragonborn in there as a backhanded way of telling those guys to go fuck themselves.
Challenge accepted. It'll be for 3.5/PF, because I don't give enough shits to learn 5e unless I'm getting to play it, but it gives me something to do that doesn't require designing a whole new game system.
Edit- Also, on Aarakocras-
MoF 3e Aarakocra:
If they'd had the furry eagle thing as the image for 3e aarakocras, I'd have cared more about them.
Edit- Also, on Aarakocras-
MoF 3e Aarakocra:
If they'd had the furry eagle thing as the image for 3e aarakocras, I'd have cared more about them.
Last edited by Prak on Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
So, after a long hiatus, I have the chance for tabletop again - but it's 5e. I've looked into this thread from time to time, but not really intensively, since I didn't intend to actually play this edition.
Now that I will, any tips on character creation? I think I remember that casters are still awesome as ever, so probably a wizard should be fine?
Now that I will, any tips on character creation? I think I remember that casters are still awesome as ever, so probably a wizard should be fine?
Animate dead is the way to go.
Keys to the Contract: A crossover between Puella Magi Madoka Magica and Kingdom Hearts.
RadiantPhoenix wrote:The D&D wizard is a work of fiction that has a completely unrealistic expectation of "uses a book".TheFlatline wrote:Legolas/Robin Hood are myths that have completely unrealistic expectation of "uses a bow".
hyzmarca wrote:Well, Mario Mario comes from a blue collar background. He was a carpenter first, working at a construction site. Then a plumber. Then a demolitionist. Also, I'm not sure how strict Mushroom Kingdom's medical licensing requirements are. I don't think his MD is valid in New York.
Animate Dead/Animate Objects does things to the combat minigame you only see in hentai, but that takes a fair bit of time to come online. Being a Wizard is perfectly acceptable: level 1 kinda sucks for you but once you get over that hurdle, you're okay. Necromancy is the focus of choice if you want to make the game double peace ahegao, but Conjuration and Enchantment are also reasonable life choices. Really, you're good with any full caster, especially since the army of undead might catch a spot-nerfing. Clerics, Wizards and Bards stand out since they get Animate Dead.
Everything is small potatoes, but a team of casters can wreak merry havoc with the math in certain areas.
Everything is small potatoes, but a team of casters can wreak merry havoc with the math in certain areas.
FrankTrollman wrote: Halfling women, as I'm sure you are aware, combine all the "fun" parts of pedophilia without any of the disturbing, illegal, or immoral parts.
K wrote:That being said, the usefulness of airships for society is still transporting cargo because it's an option that doesn't require a powerful wizard to show up for work on time instead of blowing the day in his harem of extraplanar sex demons/angels.
Chamomile wrote: See, it's because K's belief in leaving generation of individual monsters to GMs makes him Chaotic, whereas Frank's belief in the easier usability of monsters pre-generated by game designers makes him Lawful, and clearly these philosophies are so irreconcilable as to be best represented as fundamentally opposed metaphysical forces.
Whipstitch wrote:You're on a mad quest, dude. I'd sooner bet on Zeus getting bored and letting Sisyphus put down the fucking rock.
If your game is starting at level 1 I would suggest War Cleric. A War Cleric starts the game better than Fighters and towards the mid game can break everything with Animate Dead. A Necromancer Wizard breaks the game retardedly hard towards the mid game but requires 5 levels of buildup before that happens and it's totally possible a real life campaign never sees level 7. As a War Cleric you get to rock early on and break the game just before it would probably break up anyway.
DSMatticus wrote:Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. I am filled with an unfathomable hatred.
Paladins are also good cheerleader characters, to help make the Wizard Necromancer and War cleric more awesome as I recall. Anycase, as Dean said, go War Cleric.Aharon wrote:Now that I will, any tips on character creation? I think I remember that casters are still awesome as ever, so probably a wizard should be fine?
What I find wrong w/ 4th edition: "I want to stab dragons the size of a small keep with skin like supple adamantine and command over time and space to death with my longsword in head to head combat, but I want to be totally within realistic capabilities of a real human being!" --Caedrus mocking 4rries
"the thing about being Mister Cavern [DM], you don't blame players for how they play. That's like blaming the weather. Weather just is. You adapt to it. -Ancient History
"the thing about being Mister Cavern [DM], you don't blame players for how they play. That's like blaming the weather. Weather just is. You adapt to it. -Ancient History
-
- King
- Posts: 5271
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:32 am
I honestly think the tempest cleric is better than the war cleric. Let's assume STR 16, WIS 16, three short rests per day, and a 1d8 longsword.
Level 1 war cleric: You can make one extra attack per long rest per wis mod.
Level 2 war cleric: You can add +10 to one attack per short rest.
Level 1 war cleric: You can deal 2d8 lightning or thunder damage to any attacker within 5ft as a reaction save for half once per long rest per wis mod.
Level 2 war cleric: You can maximize lightning or thunder damage once per short rest.
The war cleric gets to make three extra attacks for 7.5 on a hit and 0 on a miss, and can basically convert two misses into hits. That's %HIT*3*7.5+7.5*3 extra damage.
The tempest cleric gets to hurt people as a reaction three times for 9 on a failed save and 4.5 on a successful save, and can maximize that to 18/9 twice. That's %SAVE*(3*9)+(1-%SAVE)*(3*18).
If %HIT = %SAVE = 50% (not really true, but... close-ish?), tempest cleric comes out ahead 40.5 to 33.75.
Edit: I said three short rests and did the math for two. Math is now for three.
Level 1 war cleric: You can make one extra attack per long rest per wis mod.
Level 2 war cleric: You can add +10 to one attack per short rest.
Level 1 war cleric: You can deal 2d8 lightning or thunder damage to any attacker within 5ft as a reaction save for half once per long rest per wis mod.
Level 2 war cleric: You can maximize lightning or thunder damage once per short rest.
The war cleric gets to make three extra attacks for 7.5 on a hit and 0 on a miss, and can basically convert two misses into hits. That's %HIT*3*7.5+7.5*3 extra damage.
The tempest cleric gets to hurt people as a reaction three times for 9 on a failed save and 4.5 on a successful save, and can maximize that to 18/9 twice. That's %SAVE*(3*9)+(1-%SAVE)*(3*18).
If %HIT = %SAVE = 50% (not really true, but... close-ish?), tempest cleric comes out ahead 40.5 to 33.75.
Edit: I said three short rests and did the math for two. Math is now for three.
Last edited by DSMatticus on Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
Maximized 2d8 is 16/8 on fail and save.
Still, on examination I agree. If you use your spell slots on Shield of Faith and Spiritual weapon with a Tempest Cleric you're a few spell slots down but you've maximized your action economy. A human Tempest Cleric at 3rd level can have Shield of Faith as his concentration spell likely tipping him off the RNG, a longsword attack or thunderwave attack as his attack action, a Spiritual Weapon attack as his bonus attack, and a 2d8 lightning rebuke as his Reaction. The ability to maximize lightning damage also ages better than a +10 to attack. By 5th level a Tempest cleric can just declare that he deals someone 40 damage with call lightning, save for half, which is pretty boss.
Be a Tempest Cleric, be human, take Heavy Armor Master as your feat, grab Healing Word, Shield of Faith, Spiritual Weapon, and Animate Dead when those abilities come online. That will let you have DR 3 and swift action healing from level 1, an attack in every action from level 3, and the ability to dominate the game forever from level 5 on.
Still, on examination I agree. If you use your spell slots on Shield of Faith and Spiritual weapon with a Tempest Cleric you're a few spell slots down but you've maximized your action economy. A human Tempest Cleric at 3rd level can have Shield of Faith as his concentration spell likely tipping him off the RNG, a longsword attack or thunderwave attack as his attack action, a Spiritual Weapon attack as his bonus attack, and a 2d8 lightning rebuke as his Reaction. The ability to maximize lightning damage also ages better than a +10 to attack. By 5th level a Tempest cleric can just declare that he deals someone 40 damage with call lightning, save for half, which is pretty boss.
Be a Tempest Cleric, be human, take Heavy Armor Master as your feat, grab Healing Word, Shield of Faith, Spiritual Weapon, and Animate Dead when those abilities come online. That will let you have DR 3 and swift action healing from level 1, an attack in every action from level 3, and the ability to dominate the game forever from level 5 on.
DSMatticus wrote:Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. I am filled with an unfathomable hatred.
-
- King
- Posts: 5271
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:32 am
-
- Invincible Overlord
- Posts: 10555
- Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:00 am
What really annoys me about the 5E D&D cleric is that there's no way for them to get a permanent non-bonus action extra attack unlike a lot of other classes -- including the bard. However, between the War Cleric ability and Spiritual Weapon they'll be a cuisinart for the first five levels of the game. Not that it's a big deal, because they can easily switch to Animate Dead bullshit + full casting, but still, that sucks horse anus.
It almost makes me think that if you're building a cleric for the long haul what you should do is spec for a blaster cleric with a good domain, grab a finesse weapon, and spend the first five levels getting into the thick of it with melee before you switch to full-time casting. I mean, that's if you expect to go from level 1 to 6+. If you're already starting at level 6+ I'd grab a Valor Bard instead.
It almost makes me think that if you're building a cleric for the long haul what you should do is spec for a blaster cleric with a good domain, grab a finesse weapon, and spend the first five levels getting into the thick of it with melee before you switch to full-time casting. I mean, that's if you expect to go from level 1 to 6+. If you're already starting at level 6+ I'd grab a Valor Bard instead.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
- RobbyPants
- King
- Posts: 5201
- Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:11 pm
So 5e Sage advice column is written by Jeremy Crawford.
I honestly think it would be an improvement if he was on crack.
Is he just trying to kill off this edition or something?
I honestly think it would be an improvement if he was on crack.
So if a spell does not have a material component you face more restrictions than if it does.[url=http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-spellcasting wrote:Sage Advice: The Rules of Spellcasting[/url]]If a spell has a material component, you need to handle that component when you cast the spell (see page 203 in the Player’s Handbook). The same rule applies if you’re using a spellcasting focus as the material component.
If a spell has a somatic component, you can use the hand that performs the somatic component to also handle the material component.
Another example: a cleric’s holy symbol is emblazoned on her shield. She likes to wade into melee combat with a mace in one hand and a shield in the other. She uses the holy symbol as her spellcasting focus, so she needs to have the shield in hand when she casts a cleric spell that has a material component. If the spell, such as aid, also has a somatic component, she can perform that component with the shield hand and keep holding the mace in the other.
If the same cleric casts cure wounds, she needs to put the mace or the shield away, because that spell doesn’t have a material component but does have a somatic component. She’s going to need a free hand to make the spell’s gestures. If she had the War Caster feat, she could ignore this restriction.
Is he just trying to kill off this edition or something?
Gary Gygax wrote:The player’s path to role-playing mastery begins with a thorough understanding of the rules of the game
Bigode wrote:I wouldn't normally make that blanket of a suggestion, but you seem to deserve it: scroll through the entire forum, read anything that looks interesting in term of design experience, then come back.
For 40 years Clerics have cast spells with both shield and mace in hand, and Wizards have cast spells with staff in hand. No one really gives a shit what the actual casting rules are.
OK, IRL obviously someone cared and the poor sage had to find out what was written about it in the 5e books, which was always going to be poison, but everyone else will ignore the sage advice and just let people cast the spells on their class list when doing what their class does anyway. Like in 3.5 Bards could suddenly cast spells in Chain shirts, because that's what almost everyone had been doing for the previous 25 years anyway, and not being able to do it in 3.0 organised play just pissed everyone off.
OK, IRL obviously someone cared and the poor sage had to find out what was written about it in the 5e books, which was always going to be poison, but everyone else will ignore the sage advice and just let people cast the spells on their class list when doing what their class does anyway. Like in 3.5 Bards could suddenly cast spells in Chain shirts, because that's what almost everyone had been doing for the previous 25 years anyway, and not being able to do it in 3.0 organised play just pissed everyone off.
PC, SJW, anti-fascist, not being a dick, or working on it, he/him.
Yeah, this is just another chapter in the chronicle of batshit FAQ rulings.
FrankTrollman wrote: Halfling women, as I'm sure you are aware, combine all the "fun" parts of pedophilia without any of the disturbing, illegal, or immoral parts.
K wrote:That being said, the usefulness of airships for society is still transporting cargo because it's an option that doesn't require a powerful wizard to show up for work on time instead of blowing the day in his harem of extraplanar sex demons/angels.
Chamomile wrote: See, it's because K's belief in leaving generation of individual monsters to GMs makes him Chaotic, whereas Frank's belief in the easier usability of monsters pre-generated by game designers makes him Lawful, and clearly these philosophies are so irreconcilable as to be best represented as fundamentally opposed metaphysical forces.
Whipstitch wrote:You're on a mad quest, dude. I'd sooner bet on Zeus getting bored and letting Sisyphus put down the fucking rock.