Poison/disease without ability damage

[RobbyPants]

In 3E, poisons and diseases typically do ability damage/drain. People often complain about adjusting ability scores this way because of how many things you have to recalculate. I like the idea that lowering different scores has a different effect, making different poisons and diseases feel different, but I do get the complaint about recalculation.

In a 3E-like system, are there any better alternatives other than simply dealing HP damage? Are there ways to mimic stat adjustment without so much recalculation? Are there any other systems that do this well?

My first thought would be something like statuses, condition tracks, or more precisely-applied penalties.

[Josh_Kablack]

Well you could have the Posion damage the direct / figured characteristics instead of the base / primary characteristics. Thus instead of reducing Dex a poison applies an AC penalty; Instead of reducing Strength, a poison applies a damage penalty, instead of damaging Int, a poison applies an Int penalty and causes the loss of a top-level spell and so on. This preserves the "each feels different" nature of them while making the necessary recalculations simpler.

[virgil]

On a more serious note, I think status effects would be a better way to handle it, with an onset and recovery check interval. Something like iocane powder would be better served as following the rules for suffocation that can't be solved with lung capacity; though straight-up Save-or-Die works as well.

[angelfromanotherpin]

Status effects are the way to go. There's a lot of them already, they do most of what you'd want poison to do, a bunch of them set up progression tracks, and so on. Soporifics could stack fatigued to exhausted to unconscious. Paralytics could stack staggered to nauseated to paralyzed.

[Seerow]

Didn't PF unchained have a poison/disease progression system that is independent of ability damage?

[RobbyPants]

Didn't PF unchained have a poison/disease progression system that is independent of ability damage?

Is that on their SRD?

[RobbyPants]

Conditions is what I was leaning toward the most, too. If a few more were created, it'd be easier to make these more robust and create a few tracks where none currently exist (i.e. dazzled -> ____ -> blinded).

The only thing I don't like about the tracks is that it then sets you up for a certain amount of steps until you are incapacitated. For example, if the track is sickened -> nauseated -> stunned -> paralyzed, you have to fail three saves to be incapacitated every time, no matter who you are.

Would there be any value to skipping a step on the progression for every five points by which you failed the save?

[Zaranthan]

I've always found the "if you fail the save by X or more..." mechanic a bit annoying to remember at the table. If you want stronger poisons, I'd both increase the save DC and have them move you two steps along the track, or perhaps only skip the first step.

[OgreBattle]

Common status effects are:

-Action penalties: losing a standard/move/swift action
-Movement penalties: losing Xft of movement
-Negative modifiers: "-X penalty on attack rolls, defense, skill checks, and ability checks"
-Taking X damage per round

You can also have a 'bloodied' condition that sends people down condition tracks faster so beating someone with an axe still interacts with the poison mechanics.