I know this may be fruitless but..

silva · Post by **silva** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:56 pm

Im lefting here my personal tweak of the Ruin Runner arquetype for Apocalypse World. Its basically a scavenger of the wastelands (think a stalker). When he is amid the ruins of the golden age he gets powerful (among other things, he can find anything he happens to be looking for, can turn terrain into a weapon against pursuers, can scout terrains with advanced version of read a sitch, can jury-rig any malfunctioning gear, and can produce anything non-tech from its rucksack). The catch is: deprived of the wasteland (ie: while on communities, homes, civilized shelters, etc) he is pretty weak.

Voi lá!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByF9qk ... NlR2c/view

Suggestions welcome. I dont think its overpowered right now, but if anyone raises some valid criticism, Im all ears.

RelentlessImp · Post by **RelentlessImp** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:30 pm

It's *World, bearva shilling again, nothing to see here. Move along.

Mistborn · Post by **Mistborn** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:40 pm

Let's not be hasty the thread has barely started. Let's act in good faith for once and put in the bear minimum of effort.

Situational classes are pretty much always toxic design, but a class dependent on being in a specific terrain type are just unimaginably shitty. In order for this class not to suck it need less of it eggs in the "good at doing stuff in wastelands" basket and more in the "juryrig workable tech out of the ruins of a pre-apocalyptic past".

Sakuya Izayoi · Post by **Sakuya Izayoi** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:56 pm

There are two things a jury-rigging expert is going to need in particular.

1) Guaranteed access to a place to salvage stuff on his sheet, like a junkyard.

2) Guarantee that his junkyard can NOT be arbitrarily taken over by bears or bandits whenever he rolls a 9-. If you want to present a better playbook than the base classes that's probably the first problem most of them have, built-in invitations for MC trolling.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:24 pm

Lord Mistborn wrote:Let's not be hasty the thread has bearly started.

Fix'd dat for ya.

Orca · Post by **Orca** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:15 am

Knowing nothing much about the system ... but all those moves list roll + Sharp, but none of the advancement options adds a bonus to Sharp. Is that normal for * World?

zeruslord · Post by **zeruslord** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:49 am

In Apoc World it's typical for a playsheet's main stat to start at +2 and not advance (see the stats section in the upper-left of the second page).

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:51 am

You could go a little bigger on the starting stats. The average AW modifier is just under 1 (like +.75, or so), and all the stats array you give average to .6.

silva · Post by **silva** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:26 am

Care to elaborate, Prak ? I noticed in most arquetypes each stat line averages to +3 (or +2 when it has some powerful external shit like the Driver). But indeed the Runner stats stayed too slim aside from sharp.

@Sakuya, while the idea of having a particular/hidden junkyard is pretty interesting, I think the Runner should be able to jury-rig things with scrap he gets in any ruins he find himself in. And about making this junkyard safe from MC meddling, its impossible as per the game rules. Everytime you roll -6 the MC is supposed to go hard on you, and this may include (if the fictional situation permits) taking or fucking with your stuff.

@Lord, this shit aint D&D man. Having roles functionally very afar from each other is totally in the spirit of the game. The only requisites are pushing players to desperation through scarcity, and promoting intra-party fuckerydrama. If these are fulfilled, whatever if one player is a decker that never leaves its flat and the other is a fixer that never leaves nightclubs.

Orca wrote:Knowing nothing much about the system ... but all those moves list roll + Sharp, but none of the advancement options adds a bonus to Sharp. Is that normal for * World?

It depends on the stat and arquetype, but usually Sharp and Cool are considered too powerful stats to reach +3. I said "usually" because there are exceptions (the Battlebabe gets Cool +3 for example).

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:44 am

Total mod across stat, not sets.

Angel-
Cool+1 Hard=0 Hot+1 Sharp+2 Weird-1= 3/5 stats= .6
Cool+1 Hard+1 Hot=0 Sharp+2 Weird-1= 3/5 stats= .6
Cool-1 Hard+1 Hot=0 Sharp+2 Weird+1= 3/5 stats= .6
Cool+2 Hard=0 Hot-1 Sharp+2 Weird-1= 2/5 stats= .4
Average mod across the sets=.55

Battlebabe-
Cool+3 Hard-1 Hot+1 Sharp+1 Weird=0= 4/5 stats= .8
Cool+3 Hard-1 Hot+2 Sharp=0 Weird-1= 3/5 stats= .6
Cool+3 Hard-2 Hot+1 Sharp+1 Weird+1= 4/5 stats= .8
Cool+3 Hard=0 Hot+1 Sharp+1 Weird-1= 4/5 stats= .8
Average mod across the sets=.75

and so on. Though double checking my original math for this the total average mod is actually +.54, but, as the Battlebabe shows, some splats go up to +.75 across the sets with an individual set going at least as high as +.8.

There are a lot of archetypes, so I'm not about to go through and figure out the highest again, but that gives you some idea.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:13 am

Lord Mistborn wrote:Situational classes are pretty much always toxic design, but a class dependent on being in a specific terrain type are just unimaginably shitty. In order for this class not to suck it need less of it eggs in the "good at doing stuff in wastelands" basket and more in the "juryrig workable tech out of the ruins of a pre-apocalyptic past".

Stop being stupid. Situational classes are bad when PCs are expected to experience a variety of situations in one campaign, or when they are presented as a core option (allowing one player to either screw himself or dictate setting to everyone else. This is a fan-made tweak of a promotional bonus class, so it's basically an Elothar. Apocalypse World games aren't expected to substantially chance context; the characters are basically stuck in a shitty situation they can't control. Although they're expected to eventually get enough power to change or escape the initial position, you're just supposed to declare victory at that point and end the game.

Plus, while some friends of mine did try to organize an AW game based on shady trade on the Mekong delta, AW is basically "fallout: the rpg." "Doing stuff in the wastelands" is a core competence.

silva · Post by **silva** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:20 pm

Lord,

AW doesn't have a pre-conceived functional structure like a dungeon or a megacorp lab to challenge and dictate the players roles and capabilities. Its actually the contrary - its the archetypes the group chooses once play begins that dictate the functional structures that wil arise. Pick a Gunlugger and a Battlebabe and the game will have combat-oriented structures; pick a Holder and a Hocus and the game will have community and social structures; pick a Driver and a Ruin Runner and the game will have a exploration and nomadic structure; etc. In this kind of open-ended environment functionally disparate roles are not toxic at all.

Prak,

Thats invaluable! I think the arquetypes with powerful external stuff (like the Angel and its infirmary) tend to have lower stat averages while the ones without it get higher averages (like the Battlebabe). I think the Runner could benefit from a little higher average indeed, being the mid of the way conceptually between those. Thanks.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:55 pm

No problem. It doesn't even take a lot of time, it's just tedious work. But if you're designing an archetype ('che' not 'que') it would be good to go through and do. Compare to the driver, they're probably the most similar to your archetype in external resources, being able to have two or three different cars.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:31 pm

Orca wrote:Knowing nothing much about the system ... but all those moves list roll + Sharp, but none of the advancement options adds a bonus to Sharp. Is that normal for * World?

No, Silva fucked it. The stat cap in Apocalypse World is +3. Every class but Driver (and maybe some expansion?) either starts with +3 in their main stat, starts with +2 but can advance to +3, or chooses to start with +2 or +3 but can get +3 later.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:49 pm

silva wrote:Thats invaluable! I think the arquetypes with powerful external stuff (like the Angel and its infirmary) tend to have lower stat averages while the ones without it get higher averages (like the Battlebabe). I think the Runner could benefit from a little higher average indeed, being the mid of the way conceptually between those. Thanks.

You are stupid and you should feel stupid. Apocalypse World stats follow very rigid rules that have nothing to do with averages or "external stuff."

9 of the 11 base classes get to choose either

Stats that sum to +3, including one +2, or
Stats that sum to +2, including 2 +2's.

There's a penalty for min-maxing because it's so easy to make sure you only roll your best stats. There are the following exceptions:

Battlebabes get +1 total because they have "babe" right there in the name, and because their character concept is "being good at doing things." (Vincent has a slightly different, fairly convoluted explanation*)
Drivers get -1 total to their base stats because they get +5 stats when they're in their car.
1 of the 4 options for Drivers and 1 of 4 for Operators are 1 point below par. Vincent has explicitly said that the Driver one was an error. I'm not sure if he's commented on the Operator one.

Any character that doesn't have massive stat bonuses from a special ability should have +3/+2 unless their character concept is 'being a fuckup." Apocalypse World already has Gunlugger, so we know that "being a massive failure" is an acceptable concept, but if that's not the idea behind the runner it needs to follow the format.

silva · Post by **silva** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:53 pm

Orion, makes total sense. Thanks for clarifying.

zeruslord · Post by **zeruslord** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:13 am

Jury-rig is... bad. Like, really bad. Downright punitive, to be honest - I think a savvyhead without the move could just say he's trying to jury-rig something and get a better deal from the MC than you're giving. Four negative options and only getting to pick two on a 10+ is really cruel - even when stripping something for parts, you're taking -1 forward, causing serious long-term damage, or just getting a couple uses out of it. On a 7-9, you might as well not have bothered - if you don't want a -1 forward, you're disassembling something else, causing long term damage and you only get one or two uses out of it.

Scavenger is either harsh or badly worded. I'd make sure to imply that you find what you're after, or at least something close, on a hit, whether you pick the "exactly what you're after" version or not.

silva · Post by **silva** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:10 am

Zeruslord, yeah I've considered the issues you cited. Jury-rig, I think, is supposed to be a poor-man version of the Savvyhead workshop. This is on purpose - the archetype don't actually fix things, it makes them working just a little more until he reach a savvyhead. If the player wants to actually fix things, he should acquire a workshop and some savvyhead move ( but then the workshop is immobile, something jury-rig isn't ). *EDIT* Oh and don't forget that multitool nomad gear grants one extra option on a hit, which makes the move pretty effective. If the move granted 3 options on a 10+, then the multitool would make it effectively a portable workshop.

About Scavenger, yeah, I've struggled with it too and I admit its not one of the best moves. What do you suggest, wording-wise ?

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:34 am

Basically everything this class gets is complete garbage. It's not good on any level. I haven't seen the original version; I assume that Silva massively sabotaged it to prevent players from having nice things, but maybe it was always this bad. Look at these fucking moves.

In the zone. This one is fine because it's a clone of an existing move (and all stat substitution moves are clones of each other anyway). It's worse than most of them because you don't actually get the option to take Cool as a dump stat. Of the core characters who aren't driver, every character with a move that replaces a stat can start that stat at -1, and about half the time they can start it at -2. This character can't drop Coo below 0.
They'd be crazy to follow me here. This is straight-up clownshoes from top to bottom. It's a stat substitution for a stat you can actually take at -1, but still mediocre because it's so limited in scope; more importantly, it makes no sense. You get to use the terrain as an AoE weapon with "far" range, but you have to "make some kind of contact" to use it. What does that mean? Who the hell knows!
Jerry-rigged. This could theoretically be good. Savvyhead workshop repairs are much better, but they are also 100% contingent on MC approval. Jerry-rigged lets you roll dice and make something work without allowing the MC to force you to declare that you need to go find parts, new equipment, or a lab assistant. Without multi-tool it's stupidly punitive, though. That bonus needs to be built in. It should probably also get a custom fail condition, because the default failures might be excessive punitive.
Pack rat. This is boring and shitty. Compare it with the Savvyhead Bonefeel. If you roll a 7, Bonefeel gives you "the proper tools and knowledge" + a free teleport. If you roll a 10, Pack rat gives you "something that would fit, [that] can't be hi-tech." It really needs to have a nonstandard failure condition, because even AW players will probably wonder how "searching your rucksack" leads to stuff like "separate them, capture someone, put someone in a spot, trade harm for harm, announce off-screen badness...inflict harm, take away their stuff...activate their stuff's downside...turn their move back on them." I skipped some that do work, but the point is that MC moves mostly don't make sense as consequences. Unfortunately, because this move is at-will, you can't give it appropriately mild consequences without making it an XP farm.
Pathfinder. This move...this fucking move. For those playing along at home, the basic actions in apocalypse world are grouped into 7 "basic moves" (attack, fight, diplomance, ask questions, ask questions, ask questions, and "do things"). You can "advance" these moves, which lets you score a critical success on a super-high roll. Some of these are a big deal (permanently convert any NPC into an ally, no save) and others... are not (a better outcome, true beauty, or a moment of grace). Once you've earned 25 XP, you can spend 5 XP to advance 3 moves, and another 5 to advance the other 4.

Pathfinder is supposed to be appealing because it lets you can get an advanced move at low level instead of waiting to qualify normally, but instead of spending 5 XP to advance 3 moves, you spend 5 XP to advance 1 move in specific conditions. "But Orion", I hear you saying, "surely the advanced move you get must be one of the good ones, so at least--" Let me stop you right there. It's not one of the good ones. It's the one that the designer himself describes as basically worthless.
Scavenger. This move is fine, it just doesn't do anything. I don't think it's too punitive or anything. If you have rope (and you will have rope) the results seem pretty fair. It's a decent rule for scavenging. The problem is that it's more of a rule than a proper ability. If this class didn't exist and someone's battlebabe wanted to go scavenging, this is basically the ruling I'd make to resolve it. The ruin-runner needs this move to exist so they know what to expect, but they shouldn't actually pay for it.

There are 3 kinds of class in AW. Most start with 2 abilities freely chosen from their class list. Some start with 1 fixed ability and one chosen, or with both fixed. The fixed moves are generally some game-definingly powerful that they would be essentially mandatory anyway. Finally, some classes start with 1 fixed and 2 chosen. This tends to happen when the fixed move is required for the class to make sense, but not actually all that advantageous. That's where the ruin-runner needs to be. They get the Scavenger move just to define what happens when they... scavenge stuff... and then two actual abilities to give them advantages.

silva · Post by **silva** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:34 pm

Orion and folks, I think a little history of the playbook may help to understand where I'm coming from:

1. Jeff Vogel creates The Scrapper on the AW forums here. It's a neat and fairly original idea, but very sketchy at the time. (notice how Vincent himself proposes the They would be crazy to follow me here move)

2. Someone creates The Ruin Runner as seen here. While this new version adds some neat things by itself, it ignores some things from the original, besides presenting some incoherent bits that get criticized by the community (like the +1 sharp move, which is regarded as overpowered).

3. My group is heating up to another AW game and, for the first time, one player gets interesting in the Ruin Runner. I get particularly psyched for the archetype concept and do a little research on it, where I find the Scrapper thread and see how some neat things were cut out by the Runner author. I decide to try and improve it, both by bringing some cool ideas back from that playbook, and polishing other bits myself. I open this thread here on the AW forums to get ideas and feedback on it. After a week or so, with the help of some users there, I reach a point where I feel the playbook is tight.

4. I come here and submit it to you guys, because I value the analytical skills of some people here, in the hope to find more nicks to polish. I'm successful at that, seeing as the feedback until now has been awesome.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:01 pm

Cool story bro. Personally I thought the accusations that you hate your players and want them to suffer were hyperbolic, but now we know they're irrefutably true*. A friend of yours got excited about a homebrew class, so you decided to "improve" it by

Nerfing the number of starting skills
Nerfing starting wealth
Nerfing 4 out of 6 moves
Deleting the other 2 moves
Nerfing advancement options to remove leadership
Restricting backstory
removing their eyes

I'm sure your friend is really feeling the love.

*Actually, I suspect that Silva has no actual players. We know he's lied about playing games before; what if he's lying about ever having played a game? Right now my best guess is that no one has ever liked Silva enough to voluntarily spend time with him, and that he wrote this class not to torture his imaginary friend but specifically to troll me.

silva · Post by **silva** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:06 pm

With the story out the way, let's get back to the point of the thread..

Orion wrote:In the zone. This one is fine because it's a clone of an existing move (and all stat substitution moves are clones of each other anyway). It's worse than most of them because you don't actually get the option to take Cool as a dump stat. Of the core characters who aren't driver, every character with a move that replaces a stat can start that stat at -1, and about half the time they can start it at -2. This character can't drop Coo below 0.

I'm reviewing the stats distributions as suggested by Prak above, and I'll take this into consideration. Having at least one line with -1Cool would help here.

They'd be crazy to follow me here. This is straight-up clownshoes from top to bottom. It's a stat substitution for a stat you can actually take at -1, but still mediocre because it's so limited in scope; more importantly, it makes no sense. You get to use the terrain as an AoE weapon with "far" range, but you have to "make some kind of contact" to use it. What does that mean? Who the hell knows!

This move was suggested by Vincent himself, and I don't see a problem with it. If you wanna see the idea behind it, picture a Runner being pursued by enemies into a dangerous terrain then the assailants stop, hesitate and tell to each other "Shit, are you sure we should go there!?", at which point the Runner looks back at then with a daring stare, like challenging both to go and get him. Then both give up out of fear and go away swearing.

Jerry-rigged. This could theoretically be good. Savvyhead workshop repairs are much better, but they are also 100% contingent on MC approval. Jerry-rigged lets you roll dice and make something work without allowing the MC to force you to declare that you need to go find parts, new equipment, or a lab assistant. Without multi-tool it's stupidly punitive, though. That bonus needs to be built in. It should probably also get a custom fail condition, because the default failures might be excessive punitive.

Please, elaborate? The move is supposed to be a poor-man version of the savvyhead workshop. One that allows the Runner to keep its gear working out there on the wastes until some savvyhead is around to truly fix it.

Pack rat This is boring and shitty. Compare it with the Savvyhead Bonefeel. If you roll [/b]a 7, Bonefeel gives you "the proper tools and knowledge" + a free teleport. If you roll a 10, Pack rat gives you "something that would fit, [that] can't be hi-tech." It really needs to have a nonstandard failure condition, because even AW players will probably wonder how "searching your rucksack" leads to stuff like "separate them, capture someone, put someone in a spot, trade harm for harm, announce off-screen badness...inflict harm, take away their stuff...activate their stuff's downside...turn their move back on them." I skipped some that do work, but the point is that MC moves mostly don't make sense as consequences. Unfortunately, because this move is at-will, you can't give it appropriately mild consequences without making it an XP farm.

First the move is a derivative of the Chopper one, not the Savvyhead. And the Chopper me has practically the same features you're criticizing. Second, it's not that hard to insert complications on a 9- or 6- roll. E.g: "you remember letting the item on a terrain you swore you wouldn't ever visit again". Also, certain MC hard moves are pretty open and don't need to have too specific triggers. "Separate them" is one of them. You can use it in such a myriad of ways, and Pack Rat is one of those.

Pathfinder. This move...this fucking move. For those playing along at home, the basic actions in apocalypse world are grouped into 7 "basic moves" (attack, fight, diplomance, ask questions, ask questions, ask questions, and "do things"). You can "advance" these moves, which lets you score a critical success on a super-high roll. Some of these are a big deal (permanently convert any NPC into an ally, no save) and others... are not (a better outcome, true beauty, or a moment of grace). Once you've earned 25 XP, you can spend 5 XP to advance 3 moves, and another 5 to advance the other 4.

Pathfinder is supposed to be appealing because it lets you can get an advanced move at low level instead of waiting to qualify normally, but instead of spending 5 XP to advance 3 moves, you spend 5 XP to advance 1 move in specific conditions. "But Orion", I hear you saying, "surely the advanced move you get must be one of the good ones, so at least--" Let me stop you right there. It's not one of the good ones. It's the one that the designer himself describes as basically worthless.

Again, disagree. The freedom to ask any question can be pretty powerful in the right context.

Scavenger. This move is fine, it just doesn't do anything. I don't think it's too punitive or anything. If you have rope (and you will have rope) the results seem pretty fair. It's a decent rule for scavenging. The problem is that it's more of a rule than a proper ability. If this class didn't exist and someone's battlebabe wanted to go scavenging, this is basically the ruling I'd make to resolve it. The ruin-runner needs this move to exist so they know what to expect, but they shouldn't actually pay for it.

There are 3 kinds of class in AW. Most start with 2 abilities freely chosen from their class list. Some start with 1 fixed ability and one chosen, or with both fixed. The fixed moves are generally some game-definingly powerful that they would be essentially mandatory anyway. Finally, some classes start with 1 fixed and 2 chosen. This tends to happen when the fixed move is required for the class to make sense, but not actually all that advantageous. That's where the ruin-runner needs to be. They get the Scavenger move just to define what happens when they... scavenge stuff... and then two actual abilities to give them advantages.

Again, disagree. The move structure gives enough reward as is, in my opinion. Much more than a on-the-fly ruling would. Notice that on a 10+ the player can pick exactly what he was looking for, plus another thing that's +hi-tech and +1barter (for a total of 2-barter hi-tech, besides the item he was looking for). Add the rope and climbing gear to it and you can opt to make it fast or avoid serious trouble.

About the type of playbook the Runner is, it's one of those with 6 moves where one is fixed and the player picks another one. This looks fairly good to me, as it keeps the archetype from allowing all abilities in just one go. I did create a version where you had 7 total moves, and you had 1 fixed plus 2 at your choosing, but it felt bloated, besides diffusing the archetype essence which is being gear-focused. (I like to see it as a midway between a stuff-focused ones and the pure moves-focused ones).

Again, thanks for the help Orion and everyone else. I will be adjusting the stats and coming back here to see what you think.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:54 pm

Ok Silva, this is fun, but only if you do at least some the work. Here's my read on the sitch: You took an existing class and re-wrote all its moves to make less sense and be worse. That includes the move Vincent wrote. You can't hide behind him, because he didn't write the move as it appears in your clusterfuck. So here's my hard bargain. I won't go through your moves one by one and explain why they're bad until you go through them one by one and explain why you made the changes.

silva · Post by **silva** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:22 am

Orion, dont know if Im getting your point. I took a playbook Ive found interesting conteptually but had some issues with and, after a little research, found out about the original idea that gave origin to it (The Scrapper) and decided to port back some of its features. The ending result may be not interesting to you, and theres no problem with that really. Ive found it nice and will be rolling with it.

THAT were my resons for tweeaking it, right here on the paragraph above. This has nothing to do with making the archetype purposefully worst or weaker, etc. It was just to make it cooler and more in-line with the original idea of the Scrapper. Now, if you want the rationale behind each changing, no prob. Lets go..

reminders:
original Scrapper;
original Ruin Runner;
my Ruin Runner

- - - MOVES - - -

Scavenger:
If you look at the original Runner above, you will see the move is too weak and harsh (only rewarding 1-barter, +1 to next visits, and being quick). This was the biggest red alarm for me, and what made me research the playbook origins in the first place. To my surprise (and delight) the original move from the Scrapper was so much better (see above) because not only did it give better rewards (up to 2-barter, +hi-tech, + doing it quickly) but it also gave a nice narrative punch in the form of "you find just the perfect thing". Then I just re-formatted it to a structure I prefer and voi-lá! The move is basically the same, really.

Jerry-rigged / Good enough!: This one I was disatisfied on both the original Runner and Scrapper - in the former it was too strong (due to the Multitool gear, which gives it an extra option turning it into a mobile Savvyhead workshop from the start), and the latter (from the Scrapper) Ive found ambiguous and badly worded.

Pack-rat is practically identical across all versions.

They would be crazy to follow me/us here. again, practically identical across all versions. In mine I inserted a little clause where the player must have some sort of contact (vocal, visual, radio, whatever) with the target, as otherwise the condition for triggering the effect could be too loose in-fiction (I like to have very clear trigger conditions to go with the "if you do it, do it" concept and, without my clause, the player didnt have anything to "do").

In the Zone: the reason for this is because I wanted the archetype to feel like a badass while out there in the wastes. At first I thought about inserting a clause specifying that the effect only work out in the wastes/dangerous terrain, but then a pal at another forum wisely argued that if I inserted this clause the move would be too weak and anyone would instead pick similar (and more powerful) moves from other playbooks. So I settled with your generic "when actin under fire, roll+[dominating stat] instead of +cool]. Its not the most beautiful of the moves conceptually, but functionally its certainly good.

Pathfinder: Again, I wanted a move to reflect the "guide of the wastes" side of the archetype, but everything I came up with proved bad. (my strongest initial idea was to give it +2 forward when reading a sitch to scout terrain or landscapes, but then another pal said, wisely again, that it would be too weak and people would ignore it in favour of Perfect Instincts from Battlebabe which do the same, but without limitatoins). For a moment I simply cutted it out from the archetype altogether, but then another pal convinced me to let it in some form, as it was one of the most thematic ideas (if not the best mechanical one). Then I came up with the idea of advancing the read a sitch for scouting terrain. Yeah, I know this is the weakest of the advanced moves, but - again - after a bit more talk with other pals, they convinced me that it could have some crazy wild uses and I ended up inserting it back.

- - - Moves cutted out from other versions - - -

Canny: It never made any sense in my mind that a supposed wasteland lone wolf be good at manipulating people, so this was the first thing I cutted out.

An Eye for Detail: the +1sharp this move gives is simply too powerful and have no paralel on any official or Limited Edition playbook. Besides it Ive read some reports online where people also complained of it. So bye-bye too.

- - - GEAR REBALANCE - - -

From the original Runner I cut out Pack Animal (too loose mechanically), and fused Bolthole (also loose mechanically) with hidden stash, and addded another option with medical supplies (the player must choose if he wants more money, or to have some med in case of emergency). Then I added the makeshift envirosuit & gas-mask (+1 armor out in the wastes, for promoting the idea of a wastes badass, if the player choose so), got back the tricked out sniper rifle from the Scrapper (again, promoting the idea of the wastes badass), and added rope and climbing gear to synergize with Scavenger the same way Multitool does for Jerry-Rigged.

- - - STATS - - -

I ended up redistributing the stats in the last version. Ive found that the sum and comparison of each stat row presents a better picture of the archetype strenghts and weaknesses than the average of each line as Prak suggested. Then I redid it in a way Ive found interesting. Take a look.

Thats it. Again, suggestions, critiques, commentaries, apreciated.

Dogbert · Post by **Dogbert** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:17 am

If you ask me, presenting a class that's utter shit and then screw it even further is only par for the course in *World so... good job?