OSSR: Orpheus v. Geist

Omegonthesane · Post by **Omegonthesane** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:40 pm

Longes wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:
TheFlatline wrote:nWOD generally exemplified the "why bother" conundrum of game design. I know we discussed it, but did we ever OSSR Changeling The Lost?

oWOD Changeling was... funky. I think as far as unsavory/uncomfortable implied themes Changeling wins out on Werewolf/dog rape because pedophilia is totally a thing that happens and has to be dealt with in Changeling.
I personally will not be doing a full OSSR of Changeling v Changeling. oWoD Changeling is a game that rewards you mechanically for playing a child with sex powers. That's just a line I'm not willing to cross, even for a rageview.
I'm curious what you have to say about Demon: the Fallen (and maybe Demon: the Descent).

Things are said about it in this thread.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:10 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:
TheFlatline wrote:nWOD generally exemplified the "why bother" conundrum of game design. I know we discussed it, but did we ever OSSR Changeling The Lost?

oWOD Changeling was... funky. I think as far as unsavory/uncomfortable implied themes Changeling wins out on Werewolf/dog rape because pedophilia is totally a thing that happens and has to be dealt with in Changeling.
I personally will not be doing a full OSSR of Changeling v Changeling. oWoD Changeling is a game that rewards you mechanically for playing a child with sex powers. That's just a line I'm not willing to cross, even for a rageview.

Pretty much. Which sucks because if you weren't playing *children* it would have some interesting ideas in it.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:21 am

I can totally understand how a first draft of a kitchen sink "you play fairies" game might include satyrs and nymphs as sexual creatures with sexual powers. That's what they are mythologically, and they get the "Fey" type in D&D for a reason. I can also totally understand how a first draft of a kitchen sink "you play fairies" game might include a Peter Pan type deal where you're children and can power fairy magic by clapping your hands and thinking childish thoughts. Because Tinkerbell is the most famous fairy, and obviously deserves a seat at the table.

But if you look at your first draft and notice that you have both things, and thus have children with sex powers, you need to burn that draft and never tell anyone about it. No splat or combination of splats in your game should ever be the "loli nympho tribe." That simply shouldn't be a thing that exists in your game. For reasons that are simply too obvious to even warrant discussion.

As for Demon... ugh. I think AncientHistory and I are pretty burnt on shovelware projects. Demon: the Descent is like six hundred pages long and was in part produced by labor that had a negative cost. Literally, people were able to pay money to write shit into that book. I have no idea if anyone did, but just the fact that so few fucks were given that that was even an option breaks my brain. Reading through Geist was a chore. I don't think we could handle something that is almost twice as long and even less well thought out. Demon: the Fallen isn't nearly that bad, but it's still essentially a Time of Judgment book and honestly fuck that series. Also, it's 304 pages and written by Greg Stolze, so fuck that too.

If we were going to do another White Wolf title, it would be from the period when the books actually got to the damn point. Clanbook Tzimisce or Clanbook Giovanni perhaps. Those things are like 70 pages and use big fonts. And they still have more content than the shelf breakers.

-Username17

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:41 am

FrankTrollman wrote:I can totally understand how a first draft of a kitchen sink "you play fairies" game might include satyrs and nymphs as sexual creatures with sexual powers. That's what they are mythologically, and they get the "Fey" type in D&D for a reason. I can also totally understand how a first draft of a kitchen sink "you play fairies" game might include a Peter Pan type deal where you're children and can power fairy magic by clapping your hands and thinking childish thoughts. Because Tinkerbell is the most famous fairy, and obviously deserves a seat at the table.

Do you think the game could work if it had both different types, and they could not steal each others' powers and power-gaining abilities, so that only Satyrs/Nymphs had dominion over sexytime and they very specifically were grown up? I mean, at a table of 3-6 players, you'll probably find a mixture of the two in the party, and that basically means while the Satyr is boning someone, Tinkerbell is going to fly around, gasping in amazement at the process.

And I hope that would ruin everyone's enjoyment of that. Because the absolute best you can get from that is everyone laughing when she gets too close and is knocked out cold by the backswing of his nutsack.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:37 am

Koumei wrote:Do you think the game could work if it had both different types, and they could not steal each others' powers and power-gaining abilities, so that only Satyrs/Nymphs had dominion over sexytime and they very specifically were grown up?

Let's unwind that a bit. I think a game could work like that. Dungeons & Dragons does not really have a problem with having Nymphs and also Petals. It just isn't an issue. Nymphs have death lasers they shoot out of their vaginas, and Petals are prankster child sprites and everything is fine. The world is big enough for both. But I do not think a World of Darkness game can work with those two concepts.

In a world of darkness game, interaction between the monsters is like 90% of the game. In all the angsting and politicking and crap, it will necessarily eventually become important what happens when the Satyr uses his sex powers on the forever young girl. And the answer of course, is that someone overhears your game and you all get a visit from the FBI.

-Username17

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:31 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:
Koumei wrote:Do you think the game could work if it had both different types, and they could not steal each others' powers and power-gaining abilities, so that only Satyrs/Nymphs had dominion over sexytime and they very specifically were grown up?
Let's unwind that a bit. I think a game could work like that. Dungeons & Dragons does not really have a problem with having Nymphs and also Petals. It just isn't an issue. Nymphs have death lasers they shoot out of their vaginas, and Petals are prankster child sprites and everything is fine. The world is big enough for both. But I do not think a World of Darkness game can work with those two concepts.

In a world of darkness game, interaction between the monsters is like 90% of the game. In all the angsting and politicking and crap, it will necessarily eventually become important what happens when the Satyr uses his sex powers on the forever young girl. And the answer of course, is that someone overhears your game and you all get a visit from the FBI.

-Username17

I don't think that the FBI actually cares about your roleplaying game, certainly not enough to pay you a visit, but that's a simple enough issue to resolve. The Forever Young Girl lacks the hormones that the Satyr's power takes interacts with, therefore it doesn't work. Blanket immunity may be a bit overpowered, but it prevents hijinks and isn't untrue to the source material.

Post by **fbmf** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:56 pm

I don't think that the FBI actually cares about your roleplaying game, certainly not enough to pay you a visit

The Federales have totally raided the offices of RPG designers before.

Game On,
fbmf

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:01 pm

Secret Service, but the point stands.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:14 am

hyzmarca wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:
Koumei wrote:Do you think the game could work if it had both different types, and they could not steal each others' powers and power-gaining abilities, so that only Satyrs/Nymphs had dominion over sexytime and they very specifically were grown up?
Let's unwind that a bit. I think a game could work like that. Dungeons & Dragons does not really have a problem with having Nymphs and also Petals. It just isn't an issue. Nymphs have death lasers they shoot out of their vaginas, and Petals are prankster child sprites and everything is fine. The world is big enough for both. But I do not think a World of Darkness game can work with those two concepts.

In a world of darkness game, interaction between the monsters is like 90% of the game. In all the angsting and politicking and crap, it will necessarily eventually become important what happens when the Satyr uses his sex powers on the forever young girl. And the answer of course, is that someone overhears your game and you all get a visit from the FBI.

-Username17
I don't think that the FBI actually cares about your roleplaying game, certainly not enough to pay you a visit, but that's a simple enough issue to resolve. The Forever Young Girl lacks the hormones that the Satyr's power takes interacts with, therefore it doesn't work. Blanket immunity may be a bit overpowered, but it prevents hijinks and isn't untrue to the source material.

It begs the question though of why even *entertain* the notion?

I mean, there's two workable ideas at work in Changeling. One is fae spirits rebirthing in the modern world and having a feudalistic court overlaid by reality. Satyrs, Seelie & Unseelie, oaths & shit, all that works as a WoD concept.

The other is the idea of childhood dreams and nightmares, which is again a totally doable concept. Didn't they do an RPG based on that called Little Fears?

But even not going to the Satyr thing, the book repeatedly talks about having millennial-old love affairs in 9 year old bodies and shit. So that totally was a thing the authors were thinking of. And that's just not. cool.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:08 am

We've gone into the "what is acceptable" thing before; there's no topic that cannot be treated seriously and even well in literature. Even dog sex and immortal sexy 9-year-olds. I could provide examples of both.

As something to roleplay, however...no. Way too much perv potential.

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Sun May 04, 2014 1:40 am

The boy who never grows up and the adult trapped in a child's body are two different things, thematically, though.

Peter Pan simply isn't interested in sex, because sex is an adult thing and he thematically does not ever want to grow up. His version of kissing involves a thimble and though he does have something resembling a romance with Wendy it is a childish conception of such, based more on swashbuckling adventure and childish notions of family archetypes than anything concrete.

The child who matures intellectually but not physically, and thus wants to do adult things but can't, is more thematically appropriate to Vampire, where it pings on Claudia from Interview and has space for a rather massive amount of angst. It's also potentially very creepy and have room to go way too far.

Reincarnated soulmates is an entirely different theme and in that case the love, while eternal, should remain age appropriate. If you've got eternal lovers reincarnating as children, then that shit is cyclical. They meet, become close friends, fall in love while growing up. Their relationships across repeated reincarnations shouldn't be obviously different from any normal person's relationships.

fbmf wrote:
I don't think that the FBI actually cares about your roleplaying game, certainly not enough to pay you a visit
The Federales have totally raided the offices of RPG designers before.

Game On,
fbmf

I'm pretty sure that was because one of their employees ran a hacker BBS. Back when people still used BBSs.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:21 pm

Ancient History wrote:They just keep coming back. I'm waiting for Wraith Classic.

I'm glad you do, because Wraith 20A is comming out in June 2015!

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:24 am

it's coming out 5 months ago?

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:30 am

You aren't expecting Onyx Path to complete kickstarters on schedule, are you?

Almaz · Post by **Almaz** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:01 am

To be fair, "5 months overdue" is "only slightly over the expected actual due date of Kickstarters." It's just an Accepted Thing in the RPG community in general that Kickstarters never finish on time, even with all the work done beforehand, and if they do it's a marvel. So most backers just give it 3-6 months (4.5 average!) on top of the deadline before getting grumpy, because that's the "actual" deadline.

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:44 pm

Myself, I would prefer they took longer and did a better job.

Feng Shui II is complete garbage, obviously an unfinished product.

I assume it's the same reason video games get rushed out the door - they don't want to keep paying the developers.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:44 am

How did D&D go so long without associating hobbits/halflings/kender with loli

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:25 am

OgreBattle wrote:How did D&D go so long without associating hobbits/halflings/kender with loli

Because most art of them just looks weirdly proportioned and ugly as fuck.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:24 pm

Well, that and I doubt my uncles were buying body pillows of anthropomorphized underage battleships off of jlist back in '78. Dwarves and various flavors of magical small people have been around for a long ass time even before you factor in Tolkien. Hobbits may be niche, but they're niche in the kind of way that gets jokes on Colbert every night. By contrast, loli bullshit is the sort of niche that many people don't even want to talk about.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:38 pm

OgreBattle wrote:How did D&D go so long without associating hobbits/halflings/kender with loli

Mostly because the artwork of halflings makes them look like scaled-down human adults instead of like children with pointy ears. Tasslehoff and Lidda and Gimble don't look even a little bit underaged.

erik · Post by **erik** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:21 am

Ye olde edition halfling images which set the tone:

They were totally copping the style from the Rankin-Bass Hobbit/Return of the King adaptations.

But of course we now have art with Lidda contriving a reason to drop trou. So yeah, loli halflings finally made it, well, sort of. Weird thing about 3.x halflings is that since they are human adult-proportioned they just look like adult humans in 90% of the art since only rarely do they get put next to other races or obvious indicators for scale. So I guess score one for the art team that they managed to make sexy halflings while still making them look like adults. (I would still require a valid photo ID and a birth certificate for the below Lidda, however)

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:11 am

Lidda