Annoying Game Questions You Want Answered

Pixels · Post by **Pixels** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:48 pm

OgreBattle wrote:What tabletop games use 2d6 as their RNG?.

Bear World.

... what? You asked.

erik · Post by **erik** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:18 pm

Battlestations uses 2d6

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:46 am

So, I've been reading through Atomic Robo online, and it, along with my love for Hellboy, makes me really, really want to play some kind of sci fi/urban fantasy pulp-y "two-fisted adventure" game.

I saw Frank suggested Spirit of the Century for pulp in an old thread, but I feel like this sort of high adventure, episodic thing should be sort of Beer and Pretzel-y, and easy to play while indulging in beer, if not scotch. Is there a system that lends itself to pulp and beer and pretzel gaming?

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:36 pm

I'd take it straight to Munchausen, which is explicitly a drinking game already.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:01 am

Hm... that's an interesting thought. I don't know that I personally would go full drinking game, just a more casual play style.

I'm working on designing notebooks again and am looking at doing up pages for statting monsters. I know of three formats for monster statblocks in 3.X, Classic Monster Manual, adventure statline, and late Monster Manual. Gut instinct tells me that the "best" of those is probably the classic monster manual, but I'm curious as to how true that is. Adventure statline is right out, but did people like the later layout?

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:22 am

My favorite monster statblock format is the one used in the pfsrd.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monste ... red-dragon

Antariuk · Post by **Antariuk** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:29 pm

Why wouldn't anyone use the late 3.5 statblocks, which are pretty much exactly what PF is using? It's so much better to read and to find special abilities or damage values or whatever with a sidelong glance, also the CR is at the top and not the bottom which makes a lot more sense. I always thought the classic 3.0 MM entries where one of the main reasons so few people liked to be Mister Cavern because OH MY GOD that shit is just a horrible mess to read.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:40 pm

I think you can use the later book version (the one Pathfinder copied) or the Classic MM one. Sometimes I just go looking for things that are elsewhere in the special qualities line, and it annoys me when they aren't there, but I think that's mostly just practice not because that is an actually better place for the information.

Although, if you were going to let people use 3.5 polymorph, remember that it gives special attacks and not special qualities, so it's weird that lots of things are no longer labeled as either.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:11 pm

Antariuk- yeah, I can see how the later statblocks are better for actual use, but when you're used to the classic 3.X, you're suddenly figuring out where things are all over again.

I'm overhauling the statblock for a monster notebook, so I'm also looking at just reorganizing the info in general, so far it's looking like this-

and obviously I'm not done with it, and I'm not entirely settled on where things are, but it's a start.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:12 pm

The current board consensus (such that can exist) is that Tome feats should be supplanted with piles of feats like Wings of Evil or Tomb-Tainted Soul. At first impression, the a typical class feature besides the handful of big stuff (spellcasting) and a feat are roughly comparable in power. This leaves me with an annoying question: if feats are on par with class features, and you give everyone piles of feats, aren't classes left with a smaller ratio of discernible differences and leave us to question the nature of a class-based system?

Obviously this doesn't apply to Wizards & Clerics.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:42 pm

virgil wrote:The current board consensus (such that can exist) is that Tome feats should be supplanted with piles of feats like Wings of Evil or Tomb-Tainted Soul. At first impression, the a typical class feature besides the handful of big stuff (spellcasting) and a feat are roughly comparable in power. This leaves me with an annoying question: if feats are on par with class features, and you give everyone piles of feats, aren't classes left with a smaller ratio of discernible differences and leave us to question the nature of a class-based system?

Obviously this doesn't apply to Wizards & Clerics.

The concept of a class based system is that each class gives you a package of stuff that collectively means that you can meet the minimum requirements for playing the game. So you get all the shit like hit points and saving throws that keep you from dying when level appropriate enemies look at you. Ideally, it also gives you a package of abilities that let you contribute in many common circumstances you might find yourself in at your level. For example: at low levels the Ranger gets proficiency with martial weapons in general, allowing him to fight enemies up close with his sword or far away with his bow - but also allows him to use a magical ranseur or Bohemian ear spoon if you find one.

At higher levels, it breaks down. Most martial classes don't get abilities that keep them relevant in a world where the Wizard has charmed an Earth Elemental or the Druid can summon a Dire Bear. But ideally a class would get class features trickling in that not only kept them relevant as a character, but also kept it advantageous to stay "in theme" for the class. So if you were going to make a Soul Knife class, one of the things you'd do is make sure that they got enough fixed class features that boost their mind blade that using their mind blade stayed a tactically valid choice vis a vis picking up whatever frost halberd happened to drop off the last Gnoll chief - at least against enemies that weren't specifically vulnerable to cold.

So even once you have accepted Feats as "selectable class features" there's still room for non-selectable class features. Even fully point-based games like Champions bluntly admit that every character needs to buy certain minimum levels of basic stuff like energy defense and recovery. If every Monk needs to be able to punch incorporeal creatures, you might as well make them have magic or ghost-touch punches as a fixed class feature around the level they need to do that.

-Username17

deaddmwalking · Post by **deaddmwalking** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:03 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:If every Monk needs to be able to punch incorporeal creatures, you might as well make them have magic or ghost-touch punches as a fixed class feature around the level they need to do that.

Agree completely. But I want to add something here as well. If you have a selectable ability that allows you to have incorporeal attacks at Level 5, but you also grant an immutable class feature at level 7 that provides the same benefit, you should have a way of 'repurposing' that selectable talent. Ie, you have to have Feat retraining - if a feat you have selected becomes obsolete, you should be able to recover that resource.

One reason I mention that is specifically the monk bonus feats. I remember that 'Improved Trip' is an option you can choose as a bonus, but you can also qualify for it several levels earlier if you actually want to use that ability when it is actually level appropriate.

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:12 pm

FrankTrollman wrote: If every Monk needs to be able to punch incorporeal creatures, you might as well make them have magic or ghost-touch punches as a fixed class feature around the level they need to do that.

-Username17

While I agree with the sentiment, I have to raise the question, if everyone gets ghost-touch by the time ghosts show up, then why have ghosts at all? It seems like pointless treadmilling.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:29 pm

hyzmarca wrote:While I agree with the sentiment, I have to raise the question, if everyone gets ghost-touch by the time ghosts show up, then why have ghosts at all? It seems like pointless treadmilling.

Incorporeality could just be part of the 'you must be this tall' system; the reason the PCs have to roust the ghost and not the police is that the police aren't level 6 (or whatever) yet. Even if you are that tall, the tactical opportunities provided by e.g. Spring Attacking in and out of walls or whatever are not uninteresting.

Also, not every class needs to be ghost touch at level 6 (or whatever); the SGT setup allows for some people to fail super hard against certain threats as long as they reach 50% overall. Monks specifically need it because they don't cast spells or (usually) wield magic weapons, and that means they don't even get to play the 50% miss chance game; which is fucked because of course the eastern monk traditions the class is based on have a long tradition of ghost-busting.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:00 am

I've been on a bit of a Hellblazer/Constantine kick, and of course I like Supernatural, too.

The last time my group talked about trying a new game over my frustration about being unable to properly challenge the group, one player raised interest in playing something like Supernatural, where the characters are mortal* hunters who are primarily empowered with knowledge, and I like the Kitchen Sink Occultism of Constantine. Is there a game that is well suited to this?

*yes, yes, I laugh at calling the Winchesters mortal too...

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:52 am

Prak wrote:I've been on a bit of a Hellblazer/Constantine kick, and of course I like Supernatural, too.

The last time my group talked about trying a new game over my frustration about being unable to properly challenge the group, one player raised interest in playing something like Supernatural, where the characters are mortal* hunters who are primarily empowered with knowledge, and I like the Kitchen Sink Occultism of Constantine. Is there a game that is well suited to this?

*yes, yes, I laugh at calling the Winchesters mortal too...

Ignore everything after Season 5, and they pretty much are, especially in the first three seasons.

Anyway, the go-to for Winchester-style antics is Hunter:The Vigil. Which has the distinct disadvantage of being a nWoD game, but is all about normal powered humans fighting the Word of Darkness staples. Unlike oWoD Imbued, nWod Hunters have exactly 0 supernatural powers, just what they can get from any equipment they obtain.

Of course, that means using nWoD mechanics and fluff, even if you houserule the hell out of them, that could be a problem.

On the other hand, there's this:
http://www.amazon.com/Supernatural-Role ... 1931567492
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernatu ... aying_Game

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:15 am

The Supernatual RPG, if I recall, is a system that tries to emulate a TV Show first and foremost, which, while potentially effective, seems less than satisfying.

Have people tried running mortal hunters in AS?

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:55 am

Part of this might just be anhedonia, which is a problem if it is, seeing as the only treatments for that are electrocution and heroin. And I don't know any dealers or thunder gods. But anyway, I'm sick of being completely shut down in games just by the RNG being a [EDITED].

So are there decent games out there that let you follow the words of Sun Tzu ("A superior general wins, then goes to battle. An inferior general goes to battle then tries to win") and just 100% jump off the RNG (in the good direction) in character generation?

About all I can think of is SLA industries, where the DC for any task is 11 and you roll 2d10 so if you have 9 ranks then the lowest actual roll is a critical success (because it's a double). And that is a specific game that is not really tailored for use in anything else.

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:07 am

The system I've designed for my home version of Shadowrun rely on a mechanism where:
- if difficulty rating is below your skill rating, it's auto success
- if difficulty rating is equals to or one point above your skill rating you need to spend points (that you have in a limited pool)
- if difficulty rating is higher than your skill+1, it's auto fail.

Outside of combat (and a few exceptions in some subsystems), the only times where the RNG kicks in is either to refresh your spendable pools (and even then, there's always a part of the pool that is fixed) or when you decide to "take a risk" to avoid spending points from your pool. Combat is slightly more random, but if you're good enough and take good decisions, you can limit the number of times the RNG comes into play (and the impact it has).

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:53 am

The best way to represent an occultist in D&D is to just play a wizard and make a big deal about how your magic is cultural appropriation all the way down, isn't it?

Damnit.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:58 am

So, assume a setting where alchemy works, ie, people can transmute lead to gold through chemical reaction, probably through a chain of transmutations. And theoretically they can use alchemy for its historical main goal of an elixir of immortality.

What would the ramifications of this be on the wider world? Let's say that actual transmutation of lead into gold is roughly equivalent to brain surgery in terms of required expertise.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:13 am

Some few get very very rich and always have pocket money.

They get hired or enforced by kingdoms to be part of the treasury, coining money openly or on the sly.

Some people make a big deal over the fake real gold and laud the superiority of the old real real gold. So do some countries.

Scandals happen when supposed "Purist" governments are found to also employ alchemists, just very very quietly.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:22 am

Where does BitCoin fit into this?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:30 am

Prak wrote:So, assume a setting where alchemy works, ie, people can transmute lead to gold through chemical reaction, probably through a chain of transmutations. And theoretically they can use alchemy for its historical main goal of an elixir of immortality.

What would the ramifications of this be on the wider world? Let's say that actual transmutation of lead into gold is roughly equivalent to brain surgery in terms of required expertise.

The fact that alchemy works or not does not in and of itself tell you jack diddly shit about what effect it has on the setting. We live in a world where you can transmute base metals into gold through nuclear chemistry, and no one does it because it's more expensive than mining it and the byproducts are very poisonous. We live in a world where a majority of the deaths in the ancient world are curable with chemical infusions of various kinds and the life expectancy is approximately doubled.

Transmuting base metals into gold is just an economic activity. You have various chemical inputs and specialized labor and these things have costs, and you have an output of gold that has value. If the value of the gold ever drops below the cost of the inputs, people are going to stop hiring alchemists to do it. If the value of the gold is significantly higher than the cost of the inputs, people will invest heavily in alchemical training, alchemical equipment, and reagents.

Immortality is a pipe dream. Everything dies. Sooner or later the sun will devour the Earth. Alchemical techniques can forestall certain causes of death, and by doing so greatly extend life. But there will always be something that will eventually get you. How much each individual's life gets extended comes down to what was going to kill them and how expensive and available the treatments for that cause of death are.

So let's say you were going to die of syphilis like Frederick Delius at the age of 72. Well, if you had instead lived in the age of Penicillin, then alchemy could cure your disease early for money that you can find in your couch cushions. Similarly, easy access to antibiotics could probably have saved Mozart cheaply and easily (as it seems likely that he died of a simple bacterial infection followed by organ failure). On the other hand, if you were going to die of pancreatic cancer at the age of 69 like Alan Rickman, then antibiotics would do you no good at all and it's likely that alchemy of any kind would be powerless to save you. Cancer is your own cells, and chemical treatments are notoriously ineffective.

Improvements in medicine produce different effects on the life expectancies of people who have access to them and on the people who don't. So if alchemical doctors are rare and expensive and only the Emperor has them, then the Emperor lives a long ass time and everyone else dies at 45. Like Victorian England. If medicine is more widely available, things look more like modern England (where the queen lasts for many decades but most other people live into their 80s as well).

-Username17

Count Arioch the 28th · Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:33 am

Are there any ways to increase channel resistance in Pathfinder?