Online Erfworld Game Considerations

[virgil]

On the Erfworld forums, there seems to be the opportunity for me to join this one play-by-pm system; and I get to design my starting side. I don't know how combat or leveling works exactly, and the fog of war will be real; but everyone else except the DMs will be under the same restriction.

The question is whether there are any glaring holes I can take advantage of. I will start with a level 1 capital, a ruler, and 1000 schmuckers.

[hyzmarca]

Mount Relays. Mounts use their own Move when ridden, not their riders' Move. Mounting and dismounting doesn't cost anything. So, if you have a relay set up, a unit can move between two very distant locations in a single turn, without spending any his Move. This requires a dedicated Mount or two for each leg of the relay, however.

This isn't good for moving armies because all those mounts become very expensive very quickly, but it's great or moving important units.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I only skimmed the rules, but it looks like simple Dittomancy can stack with itself. Pair it with Turnamancy to zerg rush. Thinkamancer link-ups are vague enough to possibly be as ridiculous as in the comic, but that's a crap shoot. Wharfs seems like a solid use of 2 Flavor.

[virgil]

Biggest issue there is that I can't choose which caster I get, nor exactly when I get one (50% for the first one when popping a warlord). So unless & until I get a caster, designing strategies around them should take a backseat to the more predictable elements.

[Lokey]

Unfortunately, magic rules hard in Erf World, maybe even more than puns or popculture references. Probably use the Olive Branch model, win by enforcing peace when/where you're weak.

Maybe a little of Digdug if you get good hex parameters.

They always say Hat Magic is stronger than it's been portrayed so far. Quite a nova if you can cwoak or at least tie up a couple archons with one action.

Weirdomancy or carnomancy with whichever hippymancy you can get a hold of is probably pretty powerful.

So you just have to survive until you can pop or hire some good casters, then leverage their abilities to rock and roll.

Edit: Glanced over rules. Level 2 city post-haste. Dirtamancer to start most likely, though hatomancy is pretty sweet too. Weird/carny, too limited in the rules. Haven't glanced over the unit types well yet.

[virgil]

Testing
The special units seem to be major because of the flexibility, and I can't help but think that Simplemancers are the way to real ultimate power. This is a preliminary set up for them, presuming my side's starting special is +2 customization points on all units...
Unit Type
* Hits/Combat/Defense/Move (Upkeep)
* Specials

Special A
* 8/2/2/6 (50+10/lvl)
* Simple Hatmancy, Fabrication, Tunnel Capable, Digger
* For the Snow Man Golems - maybe have favored terrain be Tundra so I can start in a zone where they can be made?

Special B
* 8/2/2/6 (50+10/lvl)
* Simple Flower Power, Farming, Builder, Surveyor, Terrain Capability

Special C
* 12/3/3/4 (100+20/lvl)
* Simple Dollmancy, Heavy, Home Guard, Tunnel Capable, Leadership

Special D
* 16/4/4/3 (250+50/lvl)
* Heavy, Simple Changemancer, Digger, Foot Biter, Sonic Breath, Earth Shaker, Speed Boost+, +1 Combat

[Judging__Eagle]

One can save 3,000$; and gain "Knight"; and "Courtier" bonuses on any Infantry that one wants to promote to "Warlord". This may, however, take +2 more turns.

Alternately; always make any futures Warlords into Courtiers first. A Courtier costs 1,000$ on an Infantry unit; and a Warlord costs 5,000$ when made out of a Courtier. However a Warlord costs 10,000$ when made out of an Infantry unit.

Saddle magic items also seem pretty handy; and can turn any creatures set up in chained pairs into a VIP relay. Potentially at a cost lower than making all of the creatures have the Mount special.

Simple magic also seems like a really good shortcut to power.

Building cities seems a bit confusing to me; however upgrading them seems really crucial.

[virgil]

The cost savings of going from courtier to warlord is something I noticed as well. I also noticed that infantry promoted to knight can have higher stats than the base knight because of the math.

An ideal progression for creating a maximally powerful single unit would be a piker or stabber that gets to decent level who is then promoted to courtier. Now that it's level 1 again, it can level-up fairly quickly, and is sent onto the field to do so. Once it gets a few levels under its belt, it's promoted to warlord, where its level is reset again for more quick stat-gain.

Of course, there will be naturally popped warlords from the very beginning by simple virtue of the fact I will want to try to get casters.

EDIT
I'm looking at resource points, and noticing that unless you can modify a city after the fact, you're missing out on all sorts of bonuses if you spend flavor points on them instead of just sending a commander build them. Although, that means you're putting a 3k price tag on some of the stat modifiers that flavor points give you.

Lumber Mills are terrible; besides base schmucker production, all they do is reduce the cost to upgrading its city by 1%. That's a lifetime savings of maybe 800. Mines earn a statistical average of 750/turn, 840 if it's on a volcano. At least by virtue of the whole vein of gems. Farms are oddly worded. A farm "reduces your upkeep cost by 75$ per turn per farm"; which means having three farms will reduce upkeep by either 225 or 675.

What all of this means is that outside of terrain restrictions, you will want all of your resource points to be either mines or farms, depending on how the farm rule works.

[hyzmarca]

I'd also think that secret collusion with competing players is probably the right way to play.

[Korwin]

On the Erfworld forums, there seems to be the opportunity for me to join this one play-by-pm system; and I get to design my starting side. I don't know how combat or leveling works exactly, and the fog of war will be real; but everyone else except the DMs will be under the same restriction.

The question is whether there are any glaring holes I can take advantage of. I will start with a level 1 capital, a ruler, and 1000 schmuckers.

Hopefully we will get an after action report.
This sounds interesting!
Or is there a way to lurk?

[virgil]

It's super slow, from what I can tell; the DM hasn't posted for at least a week, so it's not even a certainty I will join yet.

---

I am looking at infantry design. The basic idea is that I'm interested in having the equivalent of KISS, the most elite infantry units schmuckers can buy. What style of elite strike team I want my side to be able to churn out needs to be decided ahead of time; the same goes for whether I want to (or even can) plan on decking them out in accessories to cover what special is needed. But, looking at the numbers, I'm noticing a pattern. The difference between a promoted knight and a popped knight is a couple points at best. We don't get any qualitative advantage with popping unless we try to stack specials or design it around Move.

• Speed Scout = 3/0/0/26/scout
  Speed Knight = 10/3/3/21/rider
  Road Runner = 8/1/1/36/scout rider

Designing around specials essentially gives us mini-archons (if we choose ranged & flight); the style being quite dependent on whether the starting infantry is an archer or flying scout.

[Judging__Eagle]

It seems you've already started with good unit design; aiming for speed and increased information about the world.

Identifying "blind spots", "limitations" or "flanks" in any system is highly beneficial at making effective results out of a system. In a fog of war, turn-based, hex map; anything that lets you care less about those limitations; will have you at an advantage.

Higher speed, flight, and scouting, can spell exponential growth over opponents who went for powerful/tougher units, but can't apply them effectively.

[virgil]

I can already ensure that scouts pop with flying on their own, and those are much cheaper and better suited to maintain an information network. The debate is what the elite squad should be. Upon further reflection, I've narrowed it down to two options:

• Capes
  Scout 3/0/0/22/flying scout
  Knight 10/3/3/18/ranged rider
  = Promoted Scout 8/1/1/31/flying ranged scout rider
  
  Toxic Avengers
  Archer 5/11/0/5/ranged
  Knight 10/16/3/5/toxin rider
  = Promoted Archer 10/19/1/7/ranged toxin rider

Either option has the benefit of getting +8 Combat & Defense when in a full stack, along with the +5/+3/+3/+0 if promoted to Heavy. Those bonuses offset the extreme disparity in combat values between the Toxic Avenger and the Cape. It's still a matter of one option has over four times the speed, while the other has over twice as much Combat and a damage bonus directly proportional to the size of the enemy stack.

[Zaranthan]

I'd go with the speed demon. Putting your elites where you want them when you want them is ALWAYS relevant. That "bonus proportional to enemy stack size" sounds vulnerable to being chipped down by weenies.

[Judging__Eagle]

While the focus of your resources will likely be the Capes, you'll probably want a mix of the two in the long run. The Capes can provide large amounts of information in a widely distributed array; while their massive speed allows for them to be clustered to hit targets of opportunity. The Toxic Avengers, on the other hand; can be kept in a single cadre that engages targets that the Capes shouldn't be risked on by themselves.

I also like the selection of the Ranged ability as well. This is a personal bias, as I tend to favour massing units with the longest range/reach my faction has in almost any wargame I'm playing; I find the greater the range I have, the easier conflict becomes. Ironically, I'm more of close-in when playing FPS (the lack of realistic peripheral vision hurts me a lot in FPS). While I vary between close/range roles in live action simulation like paintball, airsoft, or larping (going close in airsoft/paintball is painful, but effective; while using ranged (on an otherwise melee character) at a larp is something most players aren't able to contemplate).

An other unit concept might be a fast, but tough, unit that could be used as a vangaurd/blocking/engaging force.

As much as I'd love to have a 100% ranged force; I do tend to put some thin line of units that I have available. Sometimes they're the most plentiful and cheap; others the toughest and most expensive. Usually based on what is most cost effective for the faction, and the way that the game engine handles things.

[virgil]

While the focus of your resources will likely be the Capes, you'll probably want a mix of the two in the long run.

This is an either/or question because of the rules. I get to be allowed to buy/make the Cape or the Toxic Avenger, not both. And this choice is to be made before I join the game.

[Judging__Eagle]

You'll have to use common heavy units to assist your Capes, I guess. Units who can search the map, and hit almost anywhere; are always going to be useful.

[Username17]

Back when Erfworld updated and the plot moved forward and I actually read it, one of the things that jumped out is how basically every major engagement hinged on janky bullshit. Obscure rules loopholes and their exploitation was pretty much 100% of who won wars.

So if such a game were to actually last into the late game, I would predict that the most valuable thing your faction could have would be to have some weird ability that you could use to make doing the math harder when your coalition went to war.

Since such a play by post game has no chance of ever getting anywhere, having faster units is virtually the only thing that matters, because you'll at least see more hexes before the game crashes and burns.

-Username17

[virgil]

Back when Erfworld updated and the plot moved forward and I actually read it, one of the things that jumped out is how basically every major engagement hinged on janky bullshit.

To be fair, they've actually been updating twice weekly and on time since early October. I mean, here's to hoping this kind of momentum stays for a full year, but it's been nice to see this level of regularity compared to before.

As for the game itself, I'm fully aware that going hax is likely where it will be at. From everything I can tell in these rules, it's going to be casters for real ultimate power, but I can't predict the end-game on those guys for awhile.

Since such a play by post game has no chance of ever getting anywhere

Is it something you see in the rules, or is this a general observation that PbEM/PbP games tend to crash and burn sooner rather than later?

[maglag]

Yeah, Erfworld has been updating pretty regularly, but the plot hasn't really been advancing.

It's still Hamster and his caster/undead army being pushed against the wall and then pulling off a win while Charlie goes "Curse you Hamster, you've foiled me, the ultimate criminal mastermind of Erfworld, once more! I'll get you next time!". I had hopes for when it seemed like Charlie had finally caught Pikachu Hamster, but then the status quo was quickly restored. Except that now everybody has guns, but dance-fighting allows you to dodge bullets as well as arrows and pointy sticks, so nobody really cares. Things got really silly when you consider that Charlie has a giant pile of money, and there's a bunch of mercenary casters up to hire, and he never considers just hiring some dozens of them to get shit done.*

Art is good again at least, pretty pictures are pretty.

*Wait, does your PbP game has mercenary casters? Then the path for ultimate power should be just to maximize your money income and then hire whatever casters you need when you need them.

[Username17]

Is it something you see in the rules, or is this a general observation that PbEM/PbP games tend to crash and burn sooner rather than later?

PbEM/PbP games tend to come crashing down sooner rather than later. And ones with more fiddly shit for the game master to deal with like a lot of FoW for different players and a lot of unit micromanagement tend to explode faster.

-Username17

[hyzmarca]

It's still Hamster and his caster/undead army being pushed against the wall and then pulling off a win while Charlie goes "Curse you Hamster, you've foiled me, the ultimate criminal mastermind of Erfworld, once more! I'll get you next time!". I had hopes for when it seemed like Charlie had finally caught Pikachu Hamster, but then the status quo was quickly restored. Except that now everybody has guns, but dance-fighting allows you to dodge bullets as well as arrows and pointy sticks, so nobody really cares. Things got really silly when you consider that Charlie has a giant pile of money, and there's a bunch of mercenary casters up to hire, and he never considers just hiring some dozens of them to get shit done.*

To be fair, Charlie basically just flipped the table at this point. No one is going to be able to return to the status quo after this.

[erik]

I did have high hopes when Hamstard switched teams that maybe the story was about to change gears and his buddies would be summoned to help gobwin knob and jetstone vs Charlie parson. But nooooo.

[virgil]

Current Side stats, on the assumption the game actually happens.


Royal Side

Ruler: Rex Rollstone (10/8/8/5 - Leadership, Rider) +2
Side Bonus: +2 points to customize every unit

Infantry

• All infantry wear Prohibition-era suits, with personalities to match.

Pinkie, Stabber (5/6/4/5) (30)
Smelt, Piker (7/5/6/5 - Garrison) (20)
Tommy, Archer (5/8/3/5 - Garrison, Ranged) (30)
Reporter, Scout (3/0/0/22 - Flight, Scout) (30)
Capo, Knight (10/4/4/16 - Ranged, Rider) (80+10/lvl)

Special Units
Sewer Bird, Special A (8/3/3/6 - Simple Hat Magic, Fabrication, Digger) (50+10/level)
Ivy, Special B (8/2/2/6 - Simple Flower Power, Farming, Builder, Surveyor, Tunnel Capable) (50+10/level)
Dark Knight, Special C (17/6/6/4 - Simple Dollmancy, Heavy, Home Guard, Leadership, Tunnel Capable) (100+20/level)
Clayface, Special D (13/6/4/19 - Simple Changemancy, Digger, Foot Biter, Sonic Breath, Earth Shaker, Speed Boost, Toxin) (250+50/level)

Naval Units

• Ship names are prefixed by OTP (Overseas To Port)

Tease, Sloop (7/0*/4/0*/12 - Water Bound, Ranged) (60)
Canon, Galley (14/0*/7/0*/20 - Water Bound, Ranged) (90)
Fanon, Galleon (13/0*/6/0*/40 - Water Bound, Ranged) (130)
Fisherman, Mariner (6/3/3/5 - Seafarer) (20)

Siege Units
Mole, Siege Tower (49/0/6/0*/8) (20)
Mole People, Saps (3/2/3/8 - Digging) (20)