[3.X] Diplomacy variant (PL stay out)

[MGuy]

Your examples don't exist except for money. You have a minor favor for the goblin patrol to give you directions to Vraath Keep, but a major favor for the goblin patrol to tell you where Vraath Keep is.

You can't "Make people your slave" but you can totally just tell them to fucking switch sides, and they totally have to do that, so who gives a fuck? All it takes is the most basic ability to phrase requests to make people effectively your bitch slaves. You tell them to go stand in a fucking corner and wait for you to kill their boss, then you kill their boss, and then you tell them that since they don't have an employer, maybe they want a job.

But like I said, on the other end of your vagueness rules, while convincing someone to help you kill their boss is apparently something you can definitely do, convincing someone to not kill you is not listed anywhere.

If you run into some Hostile Fuck, and convince him to Parlay, you can definitely force him to run letters for you, but it's not clear whether he just tears off to deliver the letter, or he kills you first, then delivers the letter, because no part of either listed guideline includes the option "stop hitting me."

[Omegonthesane]

Yes, clearly a session in which you make certain encounters a lot easier by using Diplomacy to make sure reinforcements don't interrupt you and have carefully planned your day so you end up with a bunch of new recruits is identical to a single-action save-or-lose.

[Kaelik]

Yes, clearly a session in which you make certain encounters a lot easier by using Diplomacy to make sure reinforcements don't interrupt you and have carefully planned your day so you end up with a bunch of new recruits is identical to a single-action save-or-lose.

Since the single action save or lose works during combat with a 100% success rate and also works on literally anyone, including the boss if you want, yes, yes it is.

Look, you are making up a bunch of limitations that don't exist, and ignoring what the rules actually do, that's like saying Planar Binding is fine, because even though you could use it to have 50 Glabrezu's adventure for you, you could also choose to use it only to call up scouts and information brokers.

[Lokey]

I was about to say there were mitigations in the SRD but wait, there's not, must have been some other version I read where it required things like talking (dc 25 minimum listen check in combat). Nothing, nada, easy dc everything to friendly and they're stuck there forever.

So hints to some language that's still missing in the OP.

Personally I'd want to know why diplo needs to do something in your game. Then wonder why it needs to be better than what bluff or intimidate do. I'd suggest that these be interchangeable, perhaps each having something useful and the others able to do that with higher dc or needing different things (like say more time if using diplo)...outside the combat uses which I suggest diplo NOT have.

You can think more about specific things you want the skill to do, and provide example dcs for those. You can keep things simple like bluff.

As things stand I think you're adding too many small increments that just don't matter, there's just so many ways to get any skill to some stupid high amount with class features, spells, feats, items. What you use it for is more important though, without that the best designed mechanics ever are useless.

[Kaelik]

I was about to say there were mitigations in the SRD but wait, there's not, must have been some other version I read where it required things like talking (dc 25 minimum listen check in combat). Nothing, nada, easy dc everything to friendly and they're stuck there forever.

Where on earth do you get the idea that Fighters can't hear Rogues talking to them in combat?

[Lokey]

Read the listen skill and the footnote (I didn't include the distance increment but it's only +1 per 10 feet). Presumably they yell things to each other that aren't easily interpretable by the enemy or other hand-wavium things.

It can of course be interpreted differently. There's some other situational checks that may apply, but they're in different sections (i.e. weather, terrain). Remember, we all play house-rules anyway, and playing strictly by the rules probably doesn't happen since there's so many of them so badly organized.

Now would a little pissing out rather than pissing in be too much to ask?

[Kaelik]

Read the listen skill and the footnote (I didn't include the distance increment but it's only +1 per 10 feet). Presumably they yell things to each other that aren't easily interpretable by the enemy or other hand-wavium things.

So... you don't understand what Minimum means? It's a DC fucking 10 to hear people talking and understand what they are saying.

Why on earth, when trying to use diplomacy to mind control enemies, would you fucking whispher?

[infected slut princess]

This is much worse than Magic Tea Party.

[virgil]

Fine. Consider it scrapped.