Koumei wrote:Probably going a bit further in using custom content and making it use less D&D stuff (though basically keeping the framework there because the basic idea there works for Disgaea).
FrankTrollman wrote:Where exactly you want to draw the line between race and class for a Disgaea based game is an open question... A Ghost and an Armor is the same thing except one is a caster and one is a warrior. A Slumber Cat and a Nekomata is both just a girl with cat ears, with one being a monk and the other being whatever the fuck you want to call a slumber cat.
Similarly, many Humanoid classes are automatically going to be combined. There's no way in fuck that you're going to write Skull and Mage as different classes, because it's the same character type with only the sex and hat changed.
Anyway, Disgaea 5 has 44 classes in it, and you could do that with 4 classes and 11 races. But what you're actually going to do is to have Basic Races that get to pick from the weird bullshit class like like Kunoichi and Galaxy Mage, and then have major races that only get to pick a basic class (Mage, Fighter, Scout, Healer), and then have a few Fixed Progression Races that have their own fixed progressions and don't let you pick a class at all.
So Human and Cat Girl are Basic Races and you can be an Archer or a Knight if you want. Ghost is a Major Race, and you have to pick a basic class but get Ghost powers for going up in level. And a Dragon is a Fixed Progression Race and you don't get to be anything else.
Basic Races plus Basic Classes are for Followers. So when mooks show up, they can be Human Fighters and they are allowed to suck.
Koumei wrote:I feel that doing the "Take ten levels of your class, then Prestige out to a fancy title" thing works pretty well for Disgaea, especially seeing as higher-tier classes flat-out have names that make good prestige classes. Who wouldn't want to write "Genocidaire" on their sheet?
I'd use the Slumber Cat as a "minion" thing - you'd have a bunch of them instead of Prinnies, and whereas Prinnies have a bunch of HP and explode when thrown, these run up fast, hit you once (as a Makai Kingdom player, I'd say "with a katana") then die in one hit. Having Leadership just be a thing, with players having bunches of disposable minions, seems very appropriate for the game.
Another thing I'm considering, which I turned down when making the original (because it was going beyond the scope of "A D&D plug-in" and D&D classes were already handing out plenty of abilities), is making the Weapon Skills a thing, and if you get "gains weapon skills with X weapon class" as a class feature (so an Archer just GETS bow skills, and a Fighter chooses 3 weapon types), then as your BAB goes up (even through prestige classing), you get the new powers. On the plus side, two Fighters can work out really differently beyond race choices and stuff, and if someone just HAS to multi-class (which doesn't really seem necessary, but always plan for players wanting to do things) then it still scales. On the downside, that's basically writing up a spell list thing, and even Human Fighter minions will be throwing Megaton Drivers around.
OgreBattle wrote:will there be political rules based on what politicians to throw into who
FrankTrollman wrote:The reason for using weapon skills is to facilitate multiclassing. Every power that is dependent on having the Gun Skill tag and a BAB of X makes a Gunslinger/Samurai more viable and every power that is dependent on having a Gunslinger Class Level of X makes the split class character less viable. That's pretty much the beginning and end of it.
I'll stick with the Tome thing for magic items, with Scaling Bonuses and various Weapon Qualities (which can flat-out be "Has X type of innocent in it" for half of them). That sounds a lot better than lists of 40 polearms, 40 axes and so on. There will be your standard 8 slots which can be eight sets of shoes if you really want, but there will also be a very special separate slot which is for your Title. Yes you can gather a bunch and then choose to specifically equip a Title.
The Dark Assembly will function much the same as it previously did, so while you won't be throwing senators into each other, there will still be the bit where players can unlock "Lets us explicitly take this game into an exciting new adventure" with a mini-game that involves bribes and skill checks (and possibly murder).
Feats won't be the big Tome ones, they'll be the smaller ones as suggested by Frank in another thread, and you get one per level, and obviously they're called Evilties. The actual games can influence these a bunch, and I'm fine with there being a whole bunch that different races and classes can specifically choose to have. Basic Races can also use these to pick up some special powers that are, in the games, Creature Skills for that race but are too good to give a Basic Race for free.
So here's my list of Basic Races:
- Human: Bonus Skill Points, Bonus Evilty
- Angel: +2 Wis, provides light, can glide/slow-fall
- Android: +2 Int and +1 Natural Armour, doesn't need to sleep, doesn't have "The Construct Package" and has a Con score like everyone else
- Orc: -2 to Sense Motive/resist Charm effects, +2 Strength, +2 Bonus to Flank/Aid Other Bonuses (ie they are now +4), Scent
- Nekomata: +2 Dex, +2 Climb and Jump, Darkvision, Fatiguing Pounce
- Jack: +2 Stealth and Intimidate, Swift Demoralise, Darkvision, doesn't sleep
- Vampire: has a Con score and doesn't have fifty Immunities, can drain blood from a Pinned or Helpless creature to eat, Light-Sensitive, +2 Bluff and Handle Animal (bats)
- Marionette: doesn't have the whole Construct thing, Feint as a Move Action, +2 to Balance, Escape Artist and Tumble but -2 to resist Compulsions, and either minor DR or Poison Resistance?
- Gargoyle: +2 Con, +4 to Jump and Resist Tripping, +1 Natural Armour, DR 5/Adamantium
- Nine Tails: +2 Cha, +2 Sense Motive and Spellcraft, Detect Magic, can't be flanked (could be loaded up with mystic seer stuff and made Advanced)
Advanced Races are:
- Empusa
- Alraune (could be Basic if you just don't give them racial spellcasting or healing auras and limit their reach to simply 10 feet?)
- Moth (again, if you just make them "a flying thing", that's a Basic Race. But they're probably best taking the Scout class and gaining special status attacks as they level)
- Ghost (will still have a Con score, but will gradually get the ability to be Ethereal)
- Sea Angel
- Imp
- Maybe include Majin as "Human with great stats, can only take lame classes"?
- Samurai - master of swords (and decent with bows and spears), iaijutsus people in half!
- Gunslinger - can shoot holes in time and space, has a hair trigger
- Ninja - sneak attacking, teleporting, status-afflicting sword/dagger users
- Archer - make doom and fire rain upon foes
- Saint - a great healer and buffer who can get along with any afterlife
- Heretic - healers who can also anti-heal, becoming great damage dealers
- Prism Mage - casters of all of the elements!
- Iron Knight - clad in superheavy armour, they stomp around taking little damage
- Mystic Knight - spellcasters who excel at stabbing as well! They lower enemy resistances too
- Berserker - warriors who don't care much for armour but do care for killing you with an axe or club
- Monk - martial artists who can change styles, unleash special moves and counter all attacks
- Master Thief - gunners and stabbers who excel at stealing your money, weapons, pants, watch, soul and ideas
- Sage - mystics with a smattering of Star magic and Healing, who can see the future and spread damage out over large areas
- Masked Hero - stupidly fast-moving flying champions who fight with fists or guns
- Professor - inventors who make great items and boost expendable items and generally power allies up
Awesome Races:
- Dragon
- Mystic Beast (the horned dog things with illusions and wind magic)
- Chimera (which in Disgaea is a jackal cobra with an array of curse powers)
- Efreeti
- Djinn
- Holy Dragon
- Serpent (the giant shark)
- Basic Undead
- Basic Animals
- Sludge
- Prinny
- Slumber Cat/Death Sabre
- Putty
- Pixie
- Eryngi
- Scrabbit
- Shadows
- Beholders (the eyeball things from Makai Kingdom are close enough)
- Golems
- Wood Golems (Treants)
- Baciel
- Zombie Dragon
- Giant Slug
- Galactic Demon
- Mimic
- Owlbears and other weird crap
- Cockatrice