The father of player agency?
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The father of player agency?
Who was the first author to reject randumb?
Who was the creator of point-buy?
Who was the first who dared saying out loud that the GM was not God? (and had a ruleset that actually backed that up).
Was there anyone before the FATE mafia (whom I now refuse to give credit for anything in virtue of their behavior) that incorporated full shared narrative and metagame currency? (not counting proto-MGC like Edge and Force Points).
I'm asking because we need new names for the big two schools of roleplay. After all, if the Gygaxian school of though is once again the new black, then it can no longer be called "old school." So, to name the other school (which is no longer "new" or "not old"), I'm looking for the father of player agency.
Who was the creator of point-buy?
Who was the first who dared saying out loud that the GM was not God? (and had a ruleset that actually backed that up).
Was there anyone before the FATE mafia (whom I now refuse to give credit for anything in virtue of their behavior) that incorporated full shared narrative and metagame currency? (not counting proto-MGC like Edge and Force Points).
I'm asking because we need new names for the big two schools of roleplay. After all, if the Gygaxian school of though is once again the new black, then it can no longer be called "old school." So, to name the other school (which is no longer "new" or "not old"), I'm looking for the father of player agency.
Last edited by Dogbert on Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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I think the first real point buy system as we'd recognize the concept today was Champions in 1981. As for metagame currency, Shadowrun first edition in 1989 had "Karma" where you got it for doing cool things and could spend it to change die rolls and events and stuff. People did not use it much, because you could also spend it like XP to raise your stats and shit - but it was there.
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As far as I can tell, the first published point-buy game was The Fantasy Trip (a precursor to GURPS) by Steve Jackson (US model).
As far as proper metagame currency goes, TORG's Drama Deck might count? That was Gorden and Slavicsek.
GM not being God might go to Ars Magica, which I think included rotating GM duties among the players? That's Rein*Hagen and Tweet.
As far as proper metagame currency goes, TORG's Drama Deck might count? That was Gorden and Slavicsek.
GM not being God might go to Ars Magica, which I think included rotating GM duties among the players? That's Rein*Hagen and Tweet.
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We also have delicious potential for confusion, in that Gygax designed his games by throwing shit at the wall and keeping the nuggets that stuck, whereas Mr. Jackson famously has his shit together.echoVanguard wrote:'Gygaxian' and 'Jacksonian' seem sufficiently cromulent.
echo
Every time you play in a "low magic world" with D&D rules (or derivates), a unicorn steps on a kitten and an orphan drops his ice cream cone.
"Jacksonian" might be it.
Would anyone remember whether the first GURPS game had a neutral tone or did it lean towards either the GM or the players? (while Champions was a revolution back in the day with both point-buy and inventing Effects-Orientation, the writing's tone was infuriatingly deprotagonizing and disempowering... also, "Heroic" school sounds both stupid and self-aggrandizing).
Would anyone remember whether the first GURPS game had a neutral tone or did it lean towards either the GM or the players? (while Champions was a revolution back in the day with both point-buy and inventing Effects-Orientation, the writing's tone was infuriatingly deprotagonizing and disempowering... also, "Heroic" school sounds both stupid and self-aggrandizing).
Last edited by Dogbert on Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reading the book... yeah, we have a winner. While the way Hero Points are granted could be better, Klug seemingly invented the "edit-a-scene" use of Hero Points, and was careful enough to write ways to keep players protected from misuse of them, and that's all I need to know.hogarth wrote:James Bond 007 RPG was an early (1983) system with point-buy character creation and hero points that you could spend to alter the environment (among other things).
So yeah, as far as I'm concerned, the name I've been looking for is "Klugian."
Thanks Hogarth, and thanks, everyone!
Last edited by Dogbert on Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
That is the old Avalon Hill game, where they wrote a cool game and neglected to ensure the people with the license who had to approve every new product actually had any incentive or plan to approve anything?Dogbert wrote: Reading the book... yeah, we have a winner. While the way Hero Points are granted could be better, Klug seemingly invented the "edit-a-scene" use of Hero Points, and was careful enough to write ways to keep players protected from misuse of them, and that's all I need to know.
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GURPS has always had a fairly neutral tone, maybe with a slight edge toward the GM: it explicitly allows some things that aren't balanced in all games, and encourages the GM to decide what is and is not allowed. But the rules have also emphasized solving debates quickly (and randomly, if necessary) instead of establishing your GM credit.Dogbert wrote:"Jacksonian" might be it.
Would anyone remember whether the first GURPS game had a neutral tone or did it lean towards either the GM or the players? (while Champions was a revolution back in the day with both point-buy and inventing Effects-Orientation, the writing's tone was infuriatingly deprotagonizing and disempowering... also, "Heroic" school sounds both stupid and self-aggrandizing).