Pathfinder Is Still Bad
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- Count Arioch the 28th
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The thing I hate most about Pathfinder is the FAQ/errata patching. I really wish the d20pfsrd just did not include FAQ/errata updates. They are actively cancerous, and I could squat over a piece of paper and shit better solutions to the problems the FAQ/errata addresses, and then I wouldn't have to deal with the paizo devs arbitrarily nerfing shit like monks.
The thing I hate second most about Pathfinder is the vast library of content, 99% of which is completely fucking useless, which is... a fair description of 3.5, except in Pathfinder the amount of content is higher, the percentage of useless content seems higher, and of course it's all new content so I actually have to relearn that shit. Pathfinder takes "quantity over quality" to an extreme 3.5 hadn't quite finished sinking to, and at this point it's been around long enough for that to snowball into an unmanageable clusterfuck.
I'll play it, because it's not like there are a lot of other options, and it can scratch the itch, but there's basically no step in the chargen process where I'm not reminded how little I think of the people who made it. It's truly an abysmal system whose design ethos is simply a celebration of 3.5's faults.
The thing I hate second most about Pathfinder is the vast library of content, 99% of which is completely fucking useless, which is... a fair description of 3.5, except in Pathfinder the amount of content is higher, the percentage of useless content seems higher, and of course it's all new content so I actually have to relearn that shit. Pathfinder takes "quantity over quality" to an extreme 3.5 hadn't quite finished sinking to, and at this point it's been around long enough for that to snowball into an unmanageable clusterfuck.
I'll play it, because it's not like there are a lot of other options, and it can scratch the itch, but there's basically no step in the chargen process where I'm not reminded how little I think of the people who made it. It's truly an abysmal system whose design ethos is simply a celebration of 3.5's faults.
- OgreBattle
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Nested sources to explain stacking.OgreBattle wrote:What're their worst errata decisions?
Crane wing, which after the errata did not work.
Monk flurry which got reversed.
Reversing the SLA to make prerequisites FAQ.
Metaphorical hands of unwritten effort.
Ultimate equipment Errata where pretty much everything useful in the book was nerfed to uselessness.
ACG Errata same as the Ultimate equipment Errata.
Also having the habit of errata nerfing things when something with a similar mechanic is coming out. An example of this is scarred witch doctor and kinetisict.
Maxus wrote:Being wrong is something that rightly should be celebrated, because now you have a chance to correct and then you'll be better than you were five minutes ago. Perfection is a hollow shell, but perfectibility is something that is to be treasured.
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I'm pretty sure the most enduring example of the FAQ/errata's idiocy will continue to be reach and the second diagonal, what with the answer to that dilemma being at one point "no you don't threaten the second diagonal but you can make attacks of opportunity on anyone who enters the first diagonal from the second diagonal because if you drew a to-scale circle with a 10ft radius around your character enemies would't be able to enter that square without crossing it." I think that answer has been changed since then, but honestly the damage is done; you shit yourself, we all saw it, and now we're going to laugh at you about it for all eternity.
The most iconic example of nerfs is the monk crane wing thing, where one of the weakest classes in the game was given a way to consistently negate a single melee attack and nope can't have that.
The most iconic example of nerfs is the monk crane wing thing, where one of the weakest classes in the game was given a way to consistently negate a single melee attack and nope can't have that.
Is that the one where adding your Charisma as a Luck Bonus to Saves doesn't stack with adding your Charisma as a Resistance Bonus to Saves because fweeble weeble blarglenarb bib bib bib?Covent wrote:Nested sources to explain stacking.
Where does the errata sit on that now? Can you qualify for "Able to cast 3rd level spells" if you get Fireball as a SLA, or not?Reversing the SLA to make prerequisites FAQ.
I have no idea what this one is. Explain?Metaphorical hands of unwritten effort.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
It is currently that you cannot gain a stat twice to anything unless that stat grants a typed bonus due to an attribute being a source rather than a feat or class ability being a source.Koumei wrote:Is that the one where adding your Charisma as a Luck Bonus to Saves doesn't stack with adding your Charisma as a Resistance Bonus to Saves because fweeble weeble blarglenarb bib bib bib?Covent wrote:Nested sources to explain stacking.
Covent wrote:Reversing the SLA to make prerequisites FAQ.
You only qualify for spells you specifically have. For example monks get dimension door and so qualify for dimensional dervish but not as casting x level spells.Koumei wrote:Where does the errata sit on that now? Can you qualify for "Able to cast 3rd level spells" if you get Fireball as a SLA, or not?
Covent wrote:Metaphorical hands of unwritten effort.
The "you cannot TWF with a two handed weapon and armor spikes due to our unwritten rule about metaphorical hands, not physical hands of effort. Even though our written rules totally allow it. Also people will totally apply this to everything to deny you via DM penis."Koumei wrote:I have no idea what this one is. Explain?
Last edited by Covent on Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Maxus wrote:Being wrong is something that rightly should be celebrated, because now you have a chance to correct and then you'll be better than you were five minutes ago. Perfection is a hollow shell, but perfectibility is something that is to be treasured.
The secret of unwritten rules that are in opposition to actual published rules actually bothers me the most. Stupid individual shit you can blame on someone (often SKR) having a moment. But the nuh-uh, up is down and logic is invalid because you lack secret access is just fucking offensive to me.
It's exactly the sort of playground 'You got shot,' 'No I didn't!' bullshit argument that RPG rules are written to avoid.
It's exactly the sort of playground 'You got shot,' 'No I didn't!' bullshit argument that RPG rules are written to avoid.
Last edited by Voss on Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah, the PFS errata/nerfing is a string of shitty decisions that have brought us nothing but anger and confusion. The worst part to me is that Paizo still denies that PFS has any role in their errata policy, which is laughable because anyone who suffers through 20 minutes of browsing their messageboards can see how that is obviously not true.
Also, DSMatticus is fucking right with the amount of (shitty) content Paizo spits out. For God's sake, we are looking at the 6th Bestiary coming mid-year, the Player Companion line features gems like the "Healer's Handbook" and there is an upcoming Hardover release called the "Adventurer's Guide" that contains informations about organizations from Golarion (as in: they introduce Golation lore shit to the so-far neutral hardcover line) that the PCs might care about - with Prestige Classes. Yes, really. I also saw an announcement for Adventurers Armory 2 somewhere, because that's something we really need. All in all, it looks super depressing.
Also, DSMatticus is fucking right with the amount of (shitty) content Paizo spits out. For God's sake, we are looking at the 6th Bestiary coming mid-year, the Player Companion line features gems like the "Healer's Handbook" and there is an upcoming Hardover release called the "Adventurer's Guide" that contains informations about organizations from Golarion (as in: they introduce Golation lore shit to the so-far neutral hardcover line) that the PCs might care about - with Prestige Classes. Yes, really. I also saw an announcement for Adventurers Armory 2 somewhere, because that's something we really need. All in all, it looks super depressing.
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." - Steven Brust
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Paladin does it. Swift action healing that scales and can cure a number of conditions a scaling number of times per day.CapnTthePirateG wrote:Ooh! Are they going to make in-combat healing worth do - I can't finish that sentence with a straight face.
They could go the vampiric way. Do damage and heal based off that damage.
If channeling was selective by default and you could choose how to spread it around that could be useful. So you could send 1d6 to the barely scratched guy and then 3d6 to the melee guy that got smacked.
Immediate action 1/rd lvl1 shield other spell.
Sure Paizo probably won't manage it but they might accidentally introduce a few things. Then nerf them a couple years later.
- OgreBattle
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The nice thing about the "Companion" line is it basically never gets errata or FAQs, only the main RPG books do. I swear there is a secret cabal of freelancers determined to undermine the RPG line this way, with sideways-errata feats that remove less relevant feat prerequisites, a bunch of ways to turn Fighters into a class with actual features, and so on, knowing it is unlikely to get officially nerfed to uselessness no matter how much PFS complains.Shady314 wrote:Sure Paizo probably won't manage it but they might accidentally introduce a few things. Then nerf them a couple years later.
Probably just delusional hope, though. They publish so much stuff every month some of it is bound to accidentally fix shit. I mean, a feat to return caster levels lost to Prestige Classes was in a book of dumb "Prestige Classes" that are pretty much just archetypes (altered main ability + different fiddlybits describes at least 1/2 to 2/3 of them) and would still be dumb then. But I man can still dream.
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Wait, what feat is this?Lurky Lurkpants wrote:. I mean, a feat to return caster levels lost to Prestige Classes was in a book of dumb "Prestige Classes" that are pretty much just archetypes (altered main ability + different fiddlybits describes at least 1/2 to 2/3 of them) and would still be dumb then. But I man can still dream.
I think he's referring to Esoteric Training, which isn't a feat but a membership reward for being in a magic guild or something. The character is supposed to pay fees, pass exams and accumulate Fame points to unlock these advancements, which is of course totally bonkers when you talk about raising caster levels inclusing bonus spells and such.
Eclectic Training (5 Fame): Guilds often require members to master and train in different subjects. When your Fame score in a guild reaches 5, choose one spellcasting class you have at least 1 level in—you increase your effective caster level in that class (including the number of spells you know and can cast per day) by +1, to a maximum caster level equal to your total Hit Dice. Single-classed spellcasters should still pick a class to which this bonus applies, since this bonus is retroactive.
EDIT: It's from Inner Sea Magic.Esoteric Training (35 Fame): The bonus to caster level you gain from Eclectic Training increases to +3 (but is still limited by your total Hit Dice). You may select a second spellcasting class to gain a +1 bonus to effective caster level.
Last edited by Antariuk on Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." - Steven Brust
Prestigious Spellcaster from Paths of the Righteous. Every time you take it, a level of a prestige class that didn't advance spellcasting advances it.CapnTthePirateG wrote:Wait, what feat is this?Lurky Lurkpants wrote:. I mean, a feat to return caster levels lost to Prestige Classes was in a book of dumb "Prestige Classes" that are pretty much just archetypes (altered main ability + different fiddlybits describes at least 1/2 to 2/3 of them) and would still be dumb then. But I man can still dream.
virgil wrote:Lovecraft didn't later add a love triangle between Dagon, Chtulhu, & the Colour-Out-of-Space; only to have it broken up through cyber-bullying by the King in Yellow.
FrankTrollman wrote:If your enemy is fucking Gravity, are you helping or hindering it by putting things on high shelves? I don't fucking know! That's not even a thing. Your enemy can't be Gravity, because that's stupid.
Wow, that is an awkwardly written feat...
Prestigious Spellcaster
The transition into a spellcasting prestige class is less difficult for you, and because of this, you gain 1 additional effective spellcaster level from your prestige class levels.
Prerequisite: Favored Prestige Class with selected prestige class.
Benefit: The first time you gain a level in your favored prestige class and the spells per day class feature does not grant an increase in effective level for the purpose of casting spells, you gain new spells per day as if the prestige class did grant +1 level of spellcasting for that level. This effect is retroactive if you gain this feat at a level beyond the point where your favored prestige class would normally have not advanced your spellcasting.
The Prestigious Spellcaster feat does not have any effect if your favored prestige class does not have the spells per day class feature, or if it does have the spells per day class feature but already grants a level increase for every level of the prestige class (as do the arcane trickster and loremaster prestige classes).
Special: You can select the Prestigious Spellcaster feat multiple times. Each time you select the Prestigious Spellcaster feat, your effective caster level increases by 1. However, regardless of the number of times you choose this feat, the total increase to your effective caster level cannot exceed your actual prestige class level. This feat also applies to prestige classes that grant extracts per day instead of spells per day
Last edited by Antariuk on Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." - Steven Brust
- rasmuswagner
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Or, you know, they realized that giving up casting for flavor features is bullshit but feats are a reasonable currency.Juton wrote:Huh, so Pathfinder has come out and said that 1 feat = 1 level of spellcasting. Or 1 feat and a prereq, whatevs. This is the logical conclusion of the Pathfinder design philosophy.
Every time you play in a "low magic world" with D&D rules (or derivates), a unicorn steps on a kitten and an orphan drops his ice cream cone.
Yeah it seems more like a really kludgy way to try and get casters to actually play caster-oriented PrCs that don't provide full casting. In terms of making more extant material at least marginally viable that's actually a good thing. Of course it is quite clearly not as good as thing as simply not producing such obviously flawed material in the first place...
- rasmuswagner
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PF design tenet: Core parts of your character's concept don't have to come in early, if they're things a Commoner couldn't do.
Unchained Summoner, Elemental subtype: If you want an elemental buddy, it gets Whirlwind/Vortex at level *20* (and fuck you Earth, you *never* gain Earth Glide).
Wildsoul (Arachnid) Vigilante: You are Spiderman. You can throw Tanglefoots bags - at level 6. You get a climb speed and the ability to shoot sticky rope - at level 12. You get "skyscraper flight" like Spiderman at level 18.
Unchained Summoner, Elemental subtype: If you want an elemental buddy, it gets Whirlwind/Vortex at level *20* (and fuck you Earth, you *never* gain Earth Glide).
Wildsoul (Arachnid) Vigilante: You are Spiderman. You can throw Tanglefoots bags - at level 6. You get a climb speed and the ability to shoot sticky rope - at level 12. You get "skyscraper flight" like Spiderman at level 18.
Every time you play in a "low magic world" with D&D rules (or derivates), a unicorn steps on a kitten and an orphan drops his ice cream cone.
- OgreBattle
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But I get +2 to damage with my longsword ALL DAY EVERY DAY, that's potentially +28800 damage if I attack for 24 hours and every round hits. Can your wizard do THAT without needing to NAP LIKE A WIDDLE BABBY? By the way I snuck into the inn at night and STOLE his components bag!!Juton wrote:Huh, so Pathfinder has come out and said that 1 feat = 1 level of spellcasting. Or 1 feat and a prereq, whatevs. This is the logical conclusion of the Pathfinder design philosophy.
Oh yeah
ANTI
MAGIC
FIELD
Check
MATE
Last edited by OgreBattle on Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lame. Pathfinder got rid of the halfling racial bonus with slings and thrown weapons, and I only just now discovered this.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
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Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!