Annoying Questions I'd Like Answered...

[Omegonthesane]

The ability to 3D print your own death stick for a fraction of the amount that death stick manufacturers intend to sell you death sticks for is indeed a threat to the manufacturers and sellers of death sticks, yes.

If they could make single use printing templates that self-deleted upon manufacturing a ghost gun requiring you to keep buying them the NRA would probably be OK with that.

[Stahlseele]

i mean . . a steam for guns should not be too hard . .

[Prak]

If they could make single use printing templates that self-deleted upon manufacturing a ghost gun requiring you to keep buying them the NRA would probably be OK with that.

The first time I read this, I thought you were talking about guns that self-destructed after use, and I thought-

"...could you make a gun from pykrete?"

[Kaelik]

I mean..... you guys get that 3d printers are more expensive and harder to get than guns right?

[RobbyPants]

I mean..... you guys get that 3d printers are more expensive and harder to get than guns right?

You're right that for average Joes, this wouldn't make sense; however, you don't need a background check to get a 3D printer. Also, you could bulk produce these without drawing attention in the way it would if you bulk purchased them.

[Omegonthesane]

I mean..... you guys get that 3d printers are more expensive and harder to get than guns right?

You're right that for average Joes, this wouldn't make sense; however, you don't need a background check to get a 3D printer. Also, you could bulk produce these without drawing attention in the way it would if you bulk purchased them.

Also, the term "ghost gun" has been used because all the shit like abrasion of bullets as they go through the barrel, manufacturing history, etc. that forensic teams can use to connect a gun to a murder goes out the window with a 3D printed weapon. So even if you aren't raising an army, you'll have fewer things to worry about when assassinating people as opposed to committing mass shootings. Probably a relatively minor point compared to what RobbyPants said though.

[deaddmwalking]

Right - 3-D printing guns isn't going to make guns MORE AVAILABLE because there are virtually an unlimited number of available guns already available. We have effectively unlimited guns now, and we can have effectively unlimited guns later. There are virtually no restrictions on private gun sales - no need to do background checks or anything. There's nothing from putting a gun on a classified ad and selling it to someone with known mental issues who was dishonorably discharged from the military with multiple active restraining orders against him because our system is already beyond F*ed.

If 3-D printed guns are a problem, it is because an AR-15 costs $1,200 and the NRA exists to defend gun manufacturers, not gun owners. To their detriment, the way they've pushed an unrestricted version of the 2nd amendment means they've removed any limitations on personal manufacture of firearms. You're not any more likely to be killed by gun violence because of 3-D printed guns, and the authorities aren't any less likely to find an attacker because of it - but there is a financial cost to gun manufacturers, which is a problem for the NRA.

If the authorities wanted to be able to track gun crimes, they would require that ammunition be tagged with a specific tracer. Any time a bullet or casing was recovered from the crime scene, they could know where it was manufactured as well as where and when it was sold. There is no constitutional restriction on tagging ammunition. What it would do is make people realize that they'll get caught if they live out their murder-revenge fantasy and they wouldn't think of using guns for it. But that would also make it so anyone using a 3-D printed gun wouldn't be the threat that they're trying to pretend they are.

Here's an Article About It that put more work into understanding the why and how.

I'm looking forward to the NRA supporting restrictions on the 2nd amendment so they can produce all the guns they want but individuals can't - all in the name of 'common sense' gun control.

[Thaluikhain]

Also, the term "ghost gun" has been used because all the shit like abrasion of bullets as they go through the barrel, manufacturing history, etc. that forensic teams can use to connect a gun to a murder goes out the window with a 3D printed weapon.

Is it true that you don't get markings on the bullets from resin guns, though? Unless the barrel was too soft, and you'd just have to replace it every few murders. Which you could do anyway if you are making it out of resin yourself.

I'd have expected that resin versions of guns designed to be made out of metal wouldn't work terribly well, but someone will come up with new designs better suited to printing.

[deaddmwalking]

I'd have expected that resin versions of guns designed to be made out of metal wouldn't work terribly well, but someone will come up with new designs better suited to printing.

There is an issue with materials being damaged by the explosive force of bullets. But a lot of things can be used a small number of times.
Wooden Cannons

Modern bullets better direct their blasts than early cannons did/do.

Sure, your plastic gun isn't going to work forever, but it doesn't have to, does it?

[Omegonthesane]

I'd have expected that resin versions of guns designed to be made out of metal wouldn't work terribly well, but someone will come up with new designs better suited to printing.

There is an issue with materials being damaged by the explosive force of bullets. But a lot of things can be used a small number of times.
Wooden Cannons

Modern bullets better direct their blasts than early cannons did/do.

Sure, your plastic gun isn't going to work forever, but it doesn't have to, does it?

Indeed - the idea was that they'd be used as disposable guns and you'd print a new one for every assassination.

[Stahlseele]

Yeah, right now, resin gun barrels are much too weak for prolonged use.
But if you can simply print more and resmelt the broked ones into smooth bore non rifled barrel guns, who cares?

[DSMatticus]

I... I think everyone said everything I wanted to say on this topic?

3D printed guns are not the gunpocalypse. We are already in the middle of the gunpocalypse. There cannot possibly be more guns. There cannot possibly be greater access to guns. If you want a gun, you can get one.

3D printed guns are a problem for the NRA because NRA stands for National Rifle Association and not National 3D-Printing Association. Every gun you print is a gun they didn't sell you and that's a tragedy worth more to them than a hundred Columbines and Parklands.

3D printed guns are a problem for security and law enforcement because they are difficult to detect or trace, which means... nothing. Detection is the abso-fucking-lute weakest part of our prevention portfolio, with the strongest being "most people aren't willing to die or go to prison for the sake of committing a murder" and the second strongest being "huh, this guy is threatening to murder a bunch of people on social media, maybe that's because he's going to murder a bunch of people." Similarly, you can't trace a gun in modern America. The NRA destroyed the ability for law enforcement to do that years ago, and now it's just a TV police fantasy. If you have a suspect and they still have the gun, because they're a fucking idiot, you can confirm that it was the gun used in the crime and that becomes evidence at trial but doesn't do shit for identifying the suspect in the first place.

Honestly we should probably be rooting for 3D-printed guns, because there's the slim chance that it will eventually become a commercial industry which displaces traditional manufacturing through ridiculously low prices and cripples the NRA. It's just a matter of getting them to look cool enough, since the role guns serve in the lives of 99% of consumers is making them feel badass. Not defense, not hunting, not crime, just feeling properly 'murican. This is unlikely, but it costs us nothing, because there cannot possibly be more guns.

[Zaranthan]

I'm actually in favor of this one. As much as I'm bothered by the idea of someone who shouldn't have a gun printing one, AND the idea of my fellow dipshits Democrats crowing for the banning of assault 3D printers that can create pistol grips, I can't see this actually making anything worse than it already is.

[K]

Is it true that you don't get markings on the bullets from resin guns, though?

Ballistic forensics is junk science because bullets deform and break up very unpredictably. Honestly, even well-accepted forensic evidence like fingerprints, profiling, and tire-track analysis is as much theater as lie-detector tests and psychics.

Any honest study of the law teaches you that we convict people mostly on whether they look like bad dudes (and yes, racism weighs heavily).

Even eye-witness testimony is scientifically unsound. If I show you a handcuffed random person in a police car of the same sex and race and general build as a stranger who you saw who committed a crime, you have a 75% chance of identifying the random person as the criminal you saw.

[Prak]

Indeed - the idea was that they'd be used as disposable guns and you'd print a new one for every assassination.

Yeah, and its not just the cost that makes these disposable. With an ABS 3D printed gun, you have a scenario where someone performs an assassination, and then either ignites a strand of detcord implanted into the gun, or tosses it in a handy fire. Hell, I don't know that an engine gets hot enough, but theoretically, you could toss it in a car engine compartment, too. 3D printed guns aren't just cheaper to replace after disposal, they're easier to dispose of in the first place.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

I personally should not be allowed to own guns, I have anger issues and poor impulse control. I think people who don't have my issues should be allowed to own all the guns they want, but I'm also uncomfortable with the influence gun manufacturers have over the government. I think I'm okay with printed guns mostly because hurting gun manufacturers would be a victimless crime if it was a crime to begin with.

[Prak]

I'm provisionally ok with a psychiatric element to gun permits, but I'm concerned that it would be too black and white, where depression or anxiety prevent you from having a gun, but anger issues (such as those that might result in domestic violence) aren't. Because 'Murica.

[deaddmwalking]

Mental health and gun ownership is tricky - sort of like gun ownership is tricky. People who own guns are more likely to kill themselves than someone else. People with depression are more likely to hurt themselves if it is easy/convenient. Considering that most people who attempt suicide and fail don't try again, keeping guns away from depressed people seems like it will save lives.

I wouldn't want to imply that mental illness is criminal, but I don't really have a problem with any restriction on gun sales

[Omegonthesane]

I am all in favour of restricting gun sales in general, but any restriction based on mental illness will 100% be used to stop marginalised folk from defending themselves or having a symbol of community membership and 0% be used to stop berserk assholes from having the means to turn their rage into destruction. Because, as Prak says, 'Murica.

[Stahlseele]

The Problem there being that the people going berserk are not so much going berserk as they are planning their killing sprees days, weeks, sometimes months in advance and then not going berserk but calmly walking in with their arsenal and taking aimed shots instead of simply keeping shooting and hoping they are going to hit what they want.

[hyzmarca]

I'd have expected that resin versions of guns designed to be made out of metal wouldn't work terribly well, but someone will come up with new designs better suited to printing.

There is an issue with materials being damaged by the explosive force of bullets. But a lot of things can be used a small number of times.
Wooden Cannons

Modern bullets better direct their blasts than early cannons did/do.

Sure, your plastic gun isn't going to work forever, but it doesn't have to, does it?

Well, you really don't want to be holding it when it fails. Having a highly pressurized tube burst near your body isn't particularly safe.

[deaddmwalking]

I certainly wasn't planning on using a 3-D printed gun myself. I don't know that I object to anyone else making an informed choice to do something stupid.

[tussock]

3D printers are interesting, when you think about it.

Like, the reason things we buy don't just randomly fail and kill us, is basically years of building regulations around what things have to be made like. Cheap cars used to just fold up and kill everyone inside, for no real reason other than profit.

And maybe you won't 3d print a car for a while yet, but what about an electric iron? A Blender? Toaster? Replacement element for your oven? Maybe not even a shitty plastic pistol you can't scan for is a problem, but maybe a shitty short barrel heavy automatic cannon and shells for it that only fires like 200 rounds before irreversibly jamming, maybe that is.

Like, there's a lot of things aren't really all that complex that are either regulated to be safe or just straight up banned from sale. We don't let people do stupid things like buy blenders that fly apart and kill them.

[Stahlseele]

And of course, there's toys . .
Imagine the industry impact on things like miniatures and transformers and the such. OMG! LEGO! You could actually design and make your own lego compatible things as well!

And now i wonder if the adult industry has tried to make use of this as of yet? O.o

[Shrapnel]

They already have 3d printed LEGO's, actually.

And I've seen 3D printed Transformers, as well. But since toys are usually cheaper than guns, and it's cheaper to buy a toy in a store or online than it is to print, say, a 1000 piece LEGO set, I doubt toy companies are in as much trouble as gun manufacturers.

(Side note: while Googling for 3D printed legos, the first search suggestion that came up was "3d printed guns for sale". Funny old world, eh?)