Where to start with mechanics for a playtest?

[JigokuBosatsu]

Perpetual disclaimer: I know this has been discussed throughout the history of the Den and I have already considered things like the Same Game test. Searching for "playtest" is an exercise in futility even if you have a brain that is fully neurologically functional. So I ain't gonna do it. New thread it is!

Okay, I've been pissing about with my heartbreaker for way too long. I don't talk about it too much because honestly I'm afraid of the hard work involved. So taking a stab at it I know that I need to decide on a basic set of rules and playtest them.

The main mechanic I'd like to hash out is kind of... Darkest Dungeon's stress and conditions paired with fate points? Currently I'm using funky open-ended versions of the traditional six attributes but I'm not married to that. Every iteration I've messed with ends up being too fiddly, and there are secondary mechanics I like but should probably wait on whether the main idea plays well. Which brings me to the main question:

In deciding to make an initial playtest version, what are some general good principles? What kind of numbers are important to consider? Is there a baseline of how complex your action economy and fate point economy should be at this point? Should there be a set of sample characters/iconics or just some vaguely character-shaped piles of numbers? Should I worry about high-level play yet? (a tier system is one of the secondary mechanics I was thinking of, so I suppose the answer to that one might be yes)

I realize these are pretty open-ended and not necessarily addressing my specifics, but as with most of my threads I am hoping just to see some discussion and general suggestions. Have at it, y'all.

[Iduno]

Try plying with various groups. People who are roleplayers, people who have played a roleplaying game once, normals, etc. Figure out how okay you are with the game being too complex for people who have never played a game before, but realize they might see something everyone else missed.

[Foxwarrior]

You can test your core mechanics by yourself, make sure the acts of taking turns and doing accounting are reasonable in length and number of meaningful choices you get to make. Bringing in other players helps more with things like figuring out if the rules are written clearly, catching if other people take a long time on steps you were doing quickly, and finding strategies and exploits.

Also, different playtesters have different tolerances for unfinished games, you might get something out of testing just your fate point economy by itself with someone, but probably mostly if they're also a game designer.

[angelfromanotherpin]

Fail faster.

[jt]

In deciding to make an initial playtest version, what are some general good principles?

Know what you intended to make, what you actually made, and how to tell the difference. Know what you're testing, what you're not, and how you intend to check on those things with a playtest.

What kind of numbers are important to consider?

Number of actions needed to resolve a situation, time spent resolving actions, time spent considering actions, time between changes of control, number of changes of control. How many times players need rule clarifications. How many times players check their phones.

Is there a baseline of how complex your action economy and fate point economy should be at this point?

Unless you're testing something unrelated to your action economy and fate point economy (which would be a bit weird?), they should be pretty close to what you expect the finished game to look like if you want your test to make much sense. You might not have a rich library of actions to choose from, but you should be using all your actions and, if you think choosing between actions is important, you should have at least two for each slot.

Should there be a set of sample characters/iconics or just some vaguely character-shaped piles of numbers?

You can get away with piles of numbers if you're doing a pure combat test, less if you're trying to do a mock adventure. Well-written example characters can even get in the way of telling what the system is providing. But you said you're using fate points so it seems like you need to have real characters.

Should I worry about high-level play yet? (a tier system is one of the secondary mechanics I was thinking of, so I suppose the answer to that one might be yes)

If you think that scaling systems are going to be one of the ways that your system is better than others, then yes you should be testing that. You can only reasonably test one level at a time though, so pick one to start with. It might not be level 1.

[OgreBattle]

well what makes something high level play vs starting level?

Complexity?

I’ve been thinking that power levels don’t need to be locked behind “you should play for months before doing this” and if a bunch of newbies want to play as fire giants they can

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

I would be quite surprised if high-level characters weren't inherently more complex than lower level ones simply due to the increased number of options they (should) have. I mean, if your 20th level fighter is just a 1st level fighter with bigger numbers... something has probably gone wrong, unless those bigger numbers actually translate into having a greater effect on the world.

Are you talking about newbies to tabletop in general, or to our specific hypothetical system? Theoretically a fire giant is just a big dude with fire resistance or maybe some flame powers, so that doesn't sound complex to me. Playing a glutenous gelatinous cube, on the other hand, would probably require a rework of the cube or some system mastery to pull off effectively.

[Foxwarrior]

The idea that high level characters should be able to do everything they were able to do at low level supports continuity of character, but is also the only thing that forces high level characters to be more complex than low level ones and you don't actually have to keep it. You could have a game where you unlearn Firebolt when you learn Explode Planet, and your high level characters would play differently from the low level ones without being more complex.

Sorry for the derail.