Detect [Alignment]: Remove, y/n?

[Psychic Robot]

I'm wondering:

How much would it poop on the game to remove these spells (or, at the very least, make them higher-level)? I think that they sort of remove the mystery behind NPCs, so I'm tempted to throw them out. At the same time, I don't want to wreck a part of the game by throwing it in the trash heap.

So, any help?

[Username17]

Alignment knowledge really only even matters in the occasional game which uses Black and White morality. People using more Planescape moral systems really don't even care if they discover that the grand vizier is evil. It's presumably part of his job to be evil, and it's not particularly noteworthy.

So no it won't really affect the game much. In most games, the ability to detect alignment is pretty much useless - either because everyone you have to fight is a red dot anyway, or because the world is subtle enough that merely discovering that someone is evil or chaotic isn't particularly interesting or helpful.

Games which have simple alignment almost never see players bother to use Detect Alignments, and games which have complex alignment almost never see players bother to use Detect Alignments. So whatever.

-Username17

[RandomCasualty2]

I've always hated alignment detection, because it screws with any political game you may want to run, and is like a total substitute for sense motive in a lot of situations.

Once the detect evil pings, your characters just aren't going to treat that NPC the same anymore, and if you've got a paladin in the group, the PCs may not work wtih him at all anymore.

[RandomCasualty2]

I've always hated alignment detection, because it screws with any political game you may want to run, and is like a total substitute for sense motive in a lot of situations.

Once the detect evil pings, your characters just aren't going to treat that NPC the same anymore, and if you've got a paladin in the group, the PCs may not work wtih him at all anymore.

[RandomCasualty2]

I've always hated alignment detection, because it screws with any political game you may want to run, and is like a total substitute for sense motive in a lot of situations.

Once the detect evil pings, your characters just aren't going to treat that NPC the same anymore, and if you've got a paladin in the group, the PCs may not work wtih him at all anymore.

[JonSetanta]

Simple fix. No alignment, no spells for it.

However, they could be retrofitted to detect and protect from types and subtypes...
Some members and I on Feybook are experimenting with that.

[Jerry]

Simple fix. No alignment, no spells for it.

This works for me; I have done it in all of my recent D&D games, and all has been well.

[Talisman]

Kill it. Kill it dead, cut it into pieces, burn the pieces and scatter the ashes on the wind. Then use a wish to keep it dead.

I frikkin' hate the detect alignment spells. I'm currently playing a pally, and I use it because I'd be an idiot not to, but as a GM I loathe them with a passion. Mostly for the reasons RC2 mentioned about...apparently, he hates 'em three times as much as I

[Psychic Robot]

See, I'm kind of thinking along the same lines as RC2 and Talisman...but getting rid of alignment--while something I would like to do--would really mess up the paladin class. And I like the paladin class.

[Jerry]

I'd probably like the Paladin class more if one of my players did not always play it as a Fundamentalist Christian stereotype.

[Psychic Robot]

That can be only slightly annoying.

[Koumei]

Simple fix. No alignment, no spells for it.

FINAL DESTINATION.

In one game, I replaced alignment with a list of 3 loyalties. It was a vague "Romance of the Three Kingdoms"-ish game, so there were plenty that lots of people had - "Shu" (or Wu or Wei), "my family", "honour", "my liege", "myself" etc.

Detect Evil was replaced with "Detect people who disagree with me" (specifically, those who shared no loyalties or who opposed one or more). Ditto Smite (Smite anything). Detect Good was replaced with "Detect people who agree with me" (see previous note on smite. You can't obliterate people for agreeing with you, that's just a bit too stupid).

Yes, it means that everyone sort of views themselves as "Good" and everything else as "Evil", practically the definition of narcissism, but the idea was to take alignment out of it.

It worked pretty well. Detect wasn't that valuable, as you couldn't just say "Aha! That man is evil!" You could merely say "Holy shit, half a dozen people here either don't place our kingdom in their top three loyalties, or else they really hate either my family or cooking!"

On the other hand, if you had a Smite attack, you could probably use it on anyone you ever fought, which is basically how it tends to work anyway - seen many Paladins kicking arse in the Celestial realms?

It worked for me. The only reason I didn't ditch them completely was that someone really really wanted to go around Holy Wording people.

[Talisman]

See, I'm kind of thinking along the same lines as RC2 and Talisman...but getting rid of alignment--while something I would like to do--would really mess up the paladin class. And I like the paladin class.

Not so much. They lose aura of good (but who uses that anyway?), but you change "smite evil" to "smite," and call it good. As Koumei noted, how often to paladins smite non-evils anyway? Okay, the power becomes a little more useful against vermin and golems...watch me care.

Frankly, I could see replacing all the alignment spells with "pick yer target" spells. You just choose who your holy word, holy smite, or whatever hurts; it makes absolutely no difference 90% of the time.

I'd probably like the Paladin class more if one of my players did not always play it as a Fundamentalist Christian stereotype.

Such players irritate me. I tend to respond by hurling non-stereotypical NPCs at them...the benevolent necromancer; the fiend-summoner who truly belives he's helping society; etc.

Unless, of course, Biblegod is one of the deities in your campign. (A friend of mine coined the term Biblegod to designate God as descibed by the fundies, as distinct from God as he personally views his deity)

[Psychic Robot]

Detect-Smite players should be hurled into the bowels of hell; yea, and they will be tormented forever and ever, and all will laugh at their agony, brimstone, sulfur, etc.

[Jerry]

Unless, of course, Biblegod is one of the deities in your campign. (A friend of mine coined the term Biblegod to designate God as descibed by the fundies, as distinct from God as he personally views his deity)

Of course not, but I've had one player who assumed that Christianity is Lawful Good in D&D terms (and we all know how compatible Alignment and real-world religion is!), so that LG gods would be the most "Christian."

Another one plays said Fundie stereotype because he thinks that it's funny. When he's serious, he plays a pacifistic, tolerant, LG priest that is about love and forgiveness, but acts like a (different) Christian stereotype.

[Koumei]

So, when he plays serious LG he plays Jesus (I knew someone who made a Jesus PrCl. It didn't suck.), minus the occasional anger Jesus unleashed, and when doing it for the lulz he played the stereotype? Wow.

A group of us, in an attempt to draw lightning towards us, started listing the domains of BibleGod (TM):

Evil, Law, Tyranny, Scaleykind (the snake thing that certain denominations focus on), Fire, Sun, Darkness, War, Water, Death, Watery Death, Hatred, Sin: Wrath...

We eventually got bored and just assumed "All the ones evil deities have, and a few neutral/good ones".

[Talisman]

You must be the ones keeping the lightning off my back, then. Anyone else find it telling that Biblegod's holy symbol is a freakin' torture device??

"I'm a priest of Bellenor, the Smiling Savior, god of puppies and big-eyed children."
"Why are you wearing a miniature iron maiden on a chain?"
"It's Bellenor's holy symbol."

[Jerry]

A group of us, in an attempt to draw lightning towards us, started listing the domains of BibleGod (TM):

Evil, Law, Tyranny, Scaleykind (the snake thing that certain denominations focus on), Fire, Sun, Darkness, War, Water, Death, Watery Death, Hatred, Sin: Wrath...

You forgot Sin: Pride, thinking that he can do no wrong, and Sin: Envy, for being a jealous God when his people worship another deity.

[Maxus]

Empirical evidence would suggest that BibleGod doesn't like people who stand out in the open during thunderstorms. And that BibleGod is really, really offended by lightning rods.

[angelfromanotherpin]

People say that God disapproves of adultery, but it seems what he really doesn't want is for people to travel at the speed of light. Adultery happens all the time, but the speed of light thing does seem to be forbidden in the way I'd forbid things if I was omnipotent.

God also doesn't like it when people touch fire or eat poop, which is why they're immediately punished for doing so; but he doesn't feel strongly enough to actually forbid it.

These rules and those like them may seem odd, but I'm told He moves in mysterious ways.

[Psychic Robot]

Eating feces is its own punishment.

[belkalra]

I don't know if this is at all helpful, but there is a "Detect Hostile Intent" spell in oriental adventures and I believe the spellbook compendium(though I could be wrong on that one). regardless, it does just that and, instead of telling you whether Mr. Alibaba over in the corner eats babies or saves them in his free time, it tells you if he plans to stab you in the face any time soon.

[JonSetanta]

"Detect Eaters of Feces"
"Detect Puppies"
"Detect Final Destination"

[Bigode]

Empirical evidence would suggest that BibleGod doesn't like people who stand out in the open during thunderstorms. And that BibleGod is really, really offended by lightning rods.

That's because he thinks men are trying to build furniture with bigger penises than his. You know, Tower of Babel and all that.

[JonSetanta]

"Detect Penis Envy"