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And...she could bang him. Because he's kinfolk, but not a werewolf. So they would be more likely to have a werewolf baby, but it wouldn't be a Metis.
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It's an ally, so the requirements are that you have to have one of your characters meet the requirement when you play the card.Zaranthan wrote:It's not even playable. It says right there: "Requires Lupus", and it's not lupus. it's never lupus.
So totally normal humans and totally normal dogs/wolves can create werewolf children, or do they have to be special or connected in some way?Ancient History wrote:If you're both werewolves, you spawn a Metis. Inbreeding can happen no matter whether a dog is involved or not. Like, Moon Moon the wolf is this character's literal cousin:
And...she could bang him. Because he's kinfolk, but not a werewolf. So they would be more likely to have a werewolf baby, but it wouldn't be a Metis.
I know, right, there's some decent looking ideas in there. Though ideas are easy, getting them to work is the hard part, of course.angelfromanotherpin wrote:I now want to make a card game with a focus on shapeshifting and traveling to the spirit world, because those are cool concepts and this game shouldn't be their representative.
My understanding of the issue is that horrible inbred cthulhu-wolf occurs when two werewolves fuck, regardless of form. In order to produce non-mutant offspring, a werewolf needs to either fuck a human or a wolf. Fucking a human results in human babies who have a small chance to eventually transform into werewolves around the age of 13, while fucking a dog/wolf results in puppies who have a chance to eventually transform into werewolves around the age of 2. Given that werewolves are somehow a dying species in White Wolf, the Werewolf Elders are going to strongly pressure you to take the dog fucking option, on the basis that it produces a whole litter of potential baby werewolves in two years instead of a single potential werewolf after a decade.The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:Just to clarify things: Do you spawn a horrible inbred cthulhu-wolf if you do the dogfucking, or do not do the dogfucking?
FrankTrollman wrote:I think Grek already won the thread and we should pack it in.
Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.
All werewolves have a human form and a dog form. When (not if) they fuck a normal dog while in their dog form, they create a dog "kinfolk" or (more rarely) a new werewolf puppy whose breed is "Lupus." The chance of making a werewolf puppy is higher if the dog that got fucked was a kinfolk dog. Every single character card in this game whose breed is "Lupus" (of which there are 25) is the result of another werewolf fucking a dog.So totally normal humans and totally normal dogs/wolves can create werewolf children, or do they have to be special or connected in some way?
One of the many things that compounded the issue in W:TA is that honor, negotiating with spirits and generally behaving like a "proper" werewolf interacted with rank and the character advancement rules. They really wanted you dwelling on the fact that your character is part of a super weird cult with rules about blood purity. Relating to someone who buys into werewolf subculture is a big fucking ask but the game really does seem to assume that post-indoctrination player characters are the norm and that's why I could never give a fuck about these assholes. I mean, shit, maybe Vampire was if anything too aimless, but I can at least understand why you'd sign on for immortality and a cut of the Ventrue slush fund. Sure, you're an evil fucker, but at least you get the keys to the company car.The layers of dog fucking and incest in this game are overlapping and very complicated. And I can understand how it got that way, but it's still wild to me that no one with editorial control over this project ever stepped in to say "we can't have multiple overlapping labels of incest, rape, and bestiality as core character origin determinants for all characters because that's fucking insane."
So werewolves have several means in this game of raping humans. And when they do that, they make human kinfolk or werewolves who are "Homids" born to a base breed form of "normal human."The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:It's almost as if someone thought "dog pedigrees are complicated and interesting, what if we put that in our werewolf game?" and didn't realize the implications of what they were doing, even as they were publishing it.
But humans can be kinfolk too, right? Kinfolk happen as offspring of a werewolf fucking a dog, or does the werewolf's genitalia imbue the dog with a couple INT points? I'm pretty sure it's the former, but this franchise is fucking weird enough for it to plausibly be the latter.
I'm sorry, I find this topic way more interesting than the weird card game itself. It's like a train wreck.
One of the things a lot of the White Wolf authors were building up to was a big time crossover where Exalted was the past of the World of Darkness and I think Alternity or some fucking thing was going to be the future. Like Shadowrun and Earthdawn in the mid-nineties. So The Lunars includes a bunch of rape and bestiality because of Werewolf: the Apocalypse. That's a setting tie-in easter egg.The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:But that's a different WW product, surely they have a different reason for including dogfucking and rape? Or was the reason "the writers were horny and edgy"?
The good news is if they concentrate on fighting the villains there is a path forward and that path is Furry Soldier Sailor Moon:The Adventurer's Almanac wrote: EDIT: Oh god, I didn't know there was a video game coming out. I wonder how much they're going to water this shit down?
I mean, it won't happen, but we can dream.Frank Trollman wrote:Remember Sailor Moon SuperS, where the Dark Carnival would show up each episode to try to find the chick who had the unicorn spirit in her dreams? And every episode they would grab some random object and fill it with black magic so that it grew into a carnival themed lady demon who went on a rampage (like Puko the Balloon Girl)? And then they would do some kung fu fighting and use some magic powers, and then Chibi Usa would reach into the mirror to call upon her Unicorn Pegasus Totem Spirit who would save the day?
Yeah. It's basically just like that. Only instead of the Dark Carnival, your villainous dudes are from the Pentex Corporation who are bad guys who want to pollute the Earth by puting a bunch of refrigerators in the antarctic to destroy the Ozone Layer or something. Then they use the dark power that they gain from gratuitous villainy (either by harvesting energy from people by encouraging them to engage in cheap materialism, or by Poisoning the Water Supply with toxic mind control chemicals) to grab the spirit of some random object, like a slot machine or a balloon. And then everyone pulls out Spirit Mirrors, and calls upon their Totem Animal, in order to use their Super Attacks.
Er...so you get werewolf kids who don't know any other werewolves? How did they become part of the society and avoid breaking the Masquerade through ignorance and stuff?FrankTrollman wrote:So the most obvious is that if you transform into "crinos" you become a giant monster that also causes traumatic memory loss to humans you have sex with, allowing you to physically overpower people and rape them. Also to get away with it, because the traumatic memory loss keeps them from reporting it to the police. I... am not making that part up. The second is that every werewolf gets an intermediate form called the "Glabro" that is between the warform Crinos and the normal human form. It's big, hairy, and has hard nails, but is kinda sorta passable as a human. It's conceptually similar to the Wolfman from like Lon Cheney's Wolfman or Teen Wolf (either movie or show). While in this form you get an "aggressive animal magnetism" that allows you to be "sexually demanding and dominant" over normal humans. Uh... I'm not making that part up either.
The general assumption was that a new werewolf didn't know any other werewolves, and grew up as a normal human or dog and then sometime during puberty they transformed for the first time and wrecked shit up and felt bad about it. Then sometime after that, other werewolves who are your 2nd or 3rd cousins show up and indoctrinate you into a "tribe" and then shortly after that your tribe farms you out into a "pack" of similarly aged werewolves from other tribes and tells you to go kill demons or die trying.Thaluikhain wrote:Er...so you get werewolf kids who don't know any other werewolves? How did they become part of the society and avoid breaking the Masquerade through ignorance and stuff?FrankTrollman wrote:So the most obvious is that if you transform into "crinos" you become a giant monster that also causes traumatic memory loss to humans you have sex with, allowing you to physically overpower people and rape them. Also to get away with it, because the traumatic memory loss keeps them from reporting it to the police. I... am not making that part up. The second is that every werewolf gets an intermediate form called the "Glabro" that is between the warform Crinos and the normal human form. It's big, hairy, and has hard nails, but is kinda sorta passable as a human. It's conceptually similar to the Wolfman from like Lon Cheney's Wolfman or Teen Wolf (either movie or show). While in this form you get an "aggressive animal magnetism" that allows you to be "sexually demanding and dominant" over normal humans. Uh... I'm not making that part up either.
Werewolf the Apocalypse had a huge buy-in problem. And when they made Werewolf the Forsaken, the buy-in problem was even worse.Whipstitch wrote:They really wanted you dwelling on the fact that your character is part of a super weird cult with rules about blood purity. Relating to someone who buys into werewolf subculture is a big fucking ask but the game really does seem to assume that post-indoctrination player characters are the norm and that's why I could never give a fuck about these assholes. I mean, shit, maybe Vampire was if anything too aimless, but I can at least understand why you'd sign on for immortality and a cut of the Ventrue slush fund. Sure, you're an evil fucker, but at least you get the keys to the company car.
You know, I actually assumed that Werewolf is an animated Disney movie and all dogs possessed human level intelligence and could talk. I mean, the metaplot is basically an edgier version of Ferngully: The Last Rainforest, so having talking Disney animals would fit right in. It would also most the dog sex from actual bestiality to the more comfortable and reasonable realm of non-anthro Furry. Having been enlightened, I have to say that my headcanon is better, because obviously.FrankTrollman wrote: So if your character is the child of a dogfucker, you are born in a litter of puppies. And if you later have sex with your sister, that's good if she can't talk and bad if she can. Because if she can't talk, your sister is a literal actual dog who happens to be a kinfolk and your children will be "pure bred." But if your sister can talk, it's because she is also a werewolf and then your incest children would be Metis (but still pure bred).