2024 Election Thread

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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by Neo Phonelobster Prime »

Koumei wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2024 5:49 am
Don't be stupid. There are plenty of countries all over the world where these hold true. Doesn't that make you feel better?
They just want to keep doing American Exceptionalism only in a new way. Maybe we should just let them continue believe they are the first and only country in the world where every commonplace attitude and historical event ever exists.

With any luck this is pretty much the nail in the coffin of their empire now, hopefully it no longer matters what the rest of the world lets dumb Americans believe now.

And yeah I'm going to rub this one in on the liberals.

So how's trying to run a small target lesser evil campaign while OPENLY DOING A GENOCIDE turning out for you there you evil dumb fucks?
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

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I moved to Canada in 2018. I think it’s time to see what citizenship will actually cost me.
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

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JourneymanN00b wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2024 4:36 am
Only in America can an insurrectionist become president and have his crimes overlooked. Only in America does sexism and racism reign supreme. Only in America can fascism rise and put an end to free elections in the future. This is a sad, SAD indictment of this nation that will last for decades to come.
In b4 Brazil says "hold my beer".

I had to come back to tell the Americans here good luck.

Good luck, guys.
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by Stahlseele »

Europe is on the way as well.
Africa is pretty much there too.
Ausfailia anybody?
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by Neo Phonelobster Prime »

Australia has been ahead of the USA on fascist creep for a while now. Right now we are taking a break but we are flirting with the idea of electing another incrementally worse fascist at a federal level, and if you think Trump is a scary piece of shit you don't know NOTHIN.

OUR next fascist leader when he took control of his party felt it necessary to run a media campaign to "correct misconceptions" with the catch phrase "Not Actually a Monster". He once used the government to found his own racist paramilitary border control group AND DRESSED THEM AS SS. He is almost certainly involved deeply in the cocaine trade. If the current party in power weren't cowards and had implemented the functional anti-corruption agency like they promised he would be in jail 3 times over and on MUCH more serious charges than ANYTHING Trump has ever been accused of. I could go on. A lot.

Edit: When he was young and totally much more normal
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by Stahlseele »

China and Russia of course.
The Arab states, the middle east.
I think of the major powers only India is not doing the Fascist thing right now?
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by Kaelik »

Lmao. India is doing a fascism, and China is not.
"The Arab states" is just a racist thing to even say and many ME countries are not doing fascism wait until you find out people are not a faceless horde and they have a bunch of different kinds of governments.

Absolutely baffling.
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by tussock »

We don't really get the US adds and stuff overseas, I'm sort of guessing from the feel of it that the Dems got stuck in a negative campaign about how Trump would be bad (after, you know, adopting a lot of the policies Trump used while in office which they had decried at the time, like the wall, and giving up on covid, and back to the office, and fuck your protests, and surely cops just need more money, and protests are bad when they disagree with the president, hey lets kill lots of brown people overseas for no fucking reason at all, and so on), ... anyway.

I get it, the liberal thing in the US, is you say that something must be done about this bad thing, and then don't actually do anything, but demand folk vote for you so that you can hold it back just a little longer.

But, did they offer people anything? Like, anything? Shifting some tax burdens? Doing anything at all about climate change in light of all the fucking floods and shit? Maybe push through the rest of that infrastructure build?

--

I'm just seeing it as a trend in the left, across the anglosphere at least. Where, ...

1: left warns the right will be bad, and promises to moderate that.
2: right promises to be even more bad than that though.
3: right gains in polling.
4: left wing party sees right gaining votes, and swings to the right, abandons all recent left wing policy, takes up "moderate" right wing policies.
5: left wing loses election as their turnout is very poor, and right turnout is down only a little.
6: left wing decides this means they didn't pull hard enough to the right.
7: right wing government shits on their own voters over and over, and eventually loses again.
8: left wing declares themselves correct all along, warns right will be bad, and promises to moderate that, etc.

And like, we've got a pretty good approximation of social democracy in the old empire, still, sort of, if you ignore the covid disability wave, the insurance companies just giving up because climate change is too hard, and oh, there's the constant right wing terrorism in the US and such, but like, all those things were also happening in the 1980s, with Aids, redlining, and the third Klan (the current wave being the fourth Klan).

It's just top tax rates went from 70%-ish to 30%-ish (or 5%-ish if you're really rich), and well, Trump is just going to let a billionaire do whatever the fuck he feels like to any part of government he wants. Which, like, Rupert Murdock was a terror back in the 80's, with his one newspaper he owned, but was not anything like that rich. His deal was overturning one piece of legislation relative to his business, which was a huge deal at the time, ultimately resulted in Fox News. Not, rewrite all of everything at your whim, sir.

--

Anyway, did they offer anything?
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by MGuy »

We don't have a left wing party in America. There's right Republican party and center right Democratic party.
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by violence in the media »

This guy looks like the evil version of Sloth from the Goonies. Or maybe an extra from a Mad Max film.
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by Neo Phonelobster Prime »

violence in the media wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2024 12:21 pm
This guy looks like the evil version of Sloth from the Goonies. Or maybe an extra from a Mad Max film.
See, what you may be doing there is mistaking current Liberal leader and former Immigration Minister Peter who has alopecia with former Labor Environment Minister Peter who has alopecia...

Now Labor Peter with alopecia used to be cool when he was a rock star with radical politics, but he sold out his radical politics when he joined the cowards wing of the labor party (actually both wings of the labor party are cowards but you know...close enough).

It may seem odd but Peter with alopecia is a really popular name to give to children in Australia.
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

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MGuy wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2024 12:15 pm
We don't have a left wing party in America. There's right Republican party and center right Democratic party.
What did you think of Claudia de la Cruz and the Socialist Party ? Not really left wing, or did you mean "no left wing party with any realistic chance of winning an election" ?
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by MGuy »

phlapjackage wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2024 1:06 am
MGuy wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2024 12:15 pm
We don't have a left wing party in America. There's right Republican party and center right Democratic party.
What did you think of Claudia de la Cruz and the Socialist Party ? Not really left wing, or did you mean "no left wing party with any realistic chance of winning an election" ?
I mean that when I went to vote this time, during the midterms, last presidential election, etc the choices on the ballot I had was Democrat, Republican, and for a number of positions Libertarian and independent. There is no real national left wing party in this country. The libertarian party is more of a third choice party than just about anything else because they at least have down ballot people on offer.
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

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MGuy wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2024 12:15 pm
We don't have a left wing party in America. There's right Republican party and center right Democratic party.
Sort of. You're living under the neoliberal consensus, which is lowish taxes for rich folks, minimalist but thorough regulation, the WTO, and attempts to make government nominally function more like a business via contracting. It's a reaction to the over-proscribed economic stagflation of the late 70's and early 80's under Bretton Woods and the last of the gold standard, which did hurt poor people quite badly, so was popular with the left immediately thereafter.

Low taxes have not gone well for the left, but still, it's the whole, "how's the water" thing.

That feels very "right wing" compared to "democratic socialism", for instance, but the Democratic Party largely support minority rights, immigrant rights, women's rights, religious freedom, the rule of law, an apolitical civil service, various social safety nets, and so on, and so on, which are all extremely left wing concepts. Sure, it's all kinda corrupt and the endless war footing fucks everything and the depths of "well meaning" racism hidden on the left and the ancient electoral system are both difficult to work around, but still.

It's about the rights of man (and the rights of women), as it were, vs the privileges of wealth (or gender, or race, or religion).

Sure, there's right wingers in the Democratic Party, various senators and governors don't actually walk the talk at all, think it's just about being polite, but you know, almost entirely, as a party, they are the left. They totally work with the socialists, just won't let one run the show.

But there's also a right wing party there in the Republican Party, and they openly hate on black folks, women, immigrants, all of that. Killing women because their pregnancy didn't go well. Denying very basic human rights to transgender folks (with gay folks to follow real soon now). Casually stripping the vote from tens of thousands of black folks. Creating brownshirt type citizen militias to literally hunt immigrant families out of their peaceful lives. And on top of that, are hugely into privileging the richest few people in the country, literally handing Musk the keys to all sorts of governance, just because of how rich he is, and going all cray-cray with the religious stuff, to regulate poor people's private lives to weird, arbitrary, and heavily punitive standards, while further deregulating the activities of wealth.

That's what those words mean.

Like how populists are actually people who hate on the privileges of the top few and the rights of poor minorities at the same time. The reign of terror in the French revolution is the type definition of that concept. The working-man's party, if you will, tends to rule by violence due to the inherent hate and lack of big money to control things that way. Literally everyone wants that big chunk of that vote, the left and right split it normally, populists are quite rare as they do very poorly in a modern pool of left and right wing parties, but they worked great against the pure right wing states that preceded them.

Centrists aren't a thing, that's just what turncoats call themselves. A man with a D by his name who votes for the Rs whenever it matters, he's just an R. They get a lot of press for being such disingenuous shitheads.

Sure, it's weird that the Republicans used to be the left wing, and Democrats used to be the right wing, and they still use some of that language each because history, but they're not that now and haven't been for about 50 years. They'd been swapping bit by bit for a long time before that. Civil rights bill, all that, eh. Radically left.
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by Neo Phonelobster Prime »

Tussock. Your analysis of what neoliberalism is or where and when it comes from is, wrong.

To put you on the right track you even called it by name as neoliberalism. I wonder what that's all about? Where's that name from? What does that name mean? What political or economic traditions and eras does it refer to?

Who knows, its probably all very new, very left wing, nothing to do with the cold war or late stage capitalism, because it's OK with the rich being gay if they want.

And shit you are also offhandedly incredibly dumb about the gold standard too aren't you?
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

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Tussock the fuck are you talking about? The existence of an outright fascist party does not make the center-right party less center right. And no centrist? I could go and make an effort post explaining how there is such a thing but ddm already exists here as a living example.
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

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MGuy wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2024 12:03 pm
Tussock the fuck are you talking about? The existence of an outright fascist party does not make the center-right party less center right. And no centrist? I could go and make an effort post explaining how there is such a thing but ddm already exists here as a living example.
There are in history: nihilistic, authoritarian, violently statist parties on the left, for instance Communist Russia, and the same kinds of folks being populists, for instance Nazi Germany, and also the same kinds of folks on the right, such as the Confederate States of America.

You can be a useless tool of the military-industrial complex and follow standard western neoliberal doctrine while being left wing, and also while being right wing, and also while being a populist.

Yes, there are many things associated with left wing parties of history and around the world today that the left wing party of the US government does not do. But all the left wing things that get done in the US are done by them, they are genuinely left wing, all the social progress, equality, benefits, broadening voting rights, access to eduction, it's all the Democratic party. Biden did a bunch of left wing stuff, rent freezes, loan forgiveness, yeah it was all half-ass because the courts are so right wing now, but that's unelected tyrant-kings for you.

--

And no, again, there is no centre position between "everyone having equal rights and privileges is good for all of us" and "no, might makes right, fuck y'all". The third pole is populists, who take the bit of a left where the rich must not have special privileges, and add a bunch of "fuck y'all" to the poor and minorities.

You might notice a bunch of people in the Democratic party, especially at the state level, are very right wing. That's an artefact of history, where some states, the right wing people are still in the Democratic party, which used to hold pretty much everyone, with policies that could be enacted in left wing ways in most places, and right wing ways in the old south. That alliance did not last forever, but some parts of it still stand.
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by Neo Phonelobster Prime »

tussock wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:38 am
You can be a useless tool of the military-industrial complex and follow standard western neoliberal doctrine while being left wing,
You having some sort of FUCKING SIESURE there Tussock?
... and also while being right wing, and also while being a populist.
Yep. You are having some sort of hallucination derived from a total mental breakdown. AGAIN.
But all the left wing things that get done in the US are done by them...
NAME these genuinely left wing things, point at them, specifically, and it BETTER NOT BE INCREMENTAL DECEPTIVE BULLSHIT ATTEMPTS TO APPEASE THE BASE WHILE ACTUALLY GIVING THEM NOTHING.

Go ahead, I fucking dare you, you hallucinating imbecile, we all know you will embarrass yourself with some sort of means tested small business loan so conditional it applies to five people ever.
And no, again, there is no centre position between "everyone having equal rights and privileges is good for all of us" and "no, might makes right, fuck y'all".
Someone musta hit your reset button mid post there, do we need to wait for you to fully boot up and reload what you were saying a few lines back?
The third pole is populists, who take the bit of a left where the rich must not have special privileges, and add a bunch of "fuck y'all" to the poor and minorities.
There are different kinds of populists good and bad, and yet SOMEHOW you describe something that neither the good populists nor the bad populists ever fucking do! And of course, you actually try to describe, POPULISM divorced from ANY consideration of the concept of what is POPULAR, because YOU CANNOT WORDS.
You might notice a bunch of people in the Democratic party, especially at the state level, are very right wing. That's an artefact of history,
NO IT ISN'T WHAT FUCKING UNIVERSE ARE YOU LIVING IN, IT IS A VERY MODERN FUCKING THING. It is ALSO a historic thing but you do not get to say money in politics is HISTORIC unless YOU CANNOT WORDS.

FFS. At least we know Tussock doesn't vote. They probably think they do, but they probably just wander into a disused cupboard full of open glue bottles in their own house and scribble "Mrs Joe Hussein Reagan" on the wall in crayon TEN DAYS AFTER EACH ELECTION.
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by MGuy »

Thinking that the Nazi party was a leftwing party explains why tussock thinks there is a leftwing party in America. I have really only seen bad faith actors pull that one out of their hat.
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by Kaelik »

tussock wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:38 am
MGuy wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2024 12:03 pm
Tussock the fuck are you talking about? The existence of an outright fascist party does not make the center-right party less center right. And no centrist? I could go and make an effort post explaining how there is such a thing but ddm already exists here as a living example.
There are in history: nihilistic, authoritarian, violently statist parties on the left, for instance Communist Russia, and the same kinds of folks being populists, for instance Nazi Germany, and also the same kinds of folks on the right, such as the Confederate States of America.
Tussock thinking the Nazis weren't on the right shouldn't surprise me! It's Tussock! But yet, still caught me offguard here.
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by Thaluikhain »

I thought the thing about populists being different from left or right, cause it's a triangle, went out with Bill Clinton in the 90s. I'd literally not heard about it until a few days ago, and I don't think I was missing anything.

(I really miss the old days of the early 21st century when having the bad guys be Nazi's in fiction seemed cliched and no longer relevant. Though that could be me not having them waving their flags as obviously in my face, and not a reflection of how active they really were)
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by MGuy »

That early time when we were doing forever war and war crimes in the middle east and still doing mass arrest of minorities? That's about the time we decided that big brother could spy on our own people at it's leisure wasn't it? I really can't recall a time period where America wasn't doing fascism. Every decade seems to just add on me forms of it.
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by Thaluikhain »

MGuy wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2024 4:43 pm
That early time when we were doing forever war and war crimes in the middle east and still doing mass arrest of minorities? That's about the time we decided that big brother could spy on our own people at it's leisure wasn't it? I really can't recall a time period where America wasn't doing fascism. Every decade seems to just add on me forms of it.
True, but actually waving swastikas and declaring oneself a Nazi was seen as a step too far. Though I'm splitting hairs on my types of fascism there.
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

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I think it's just how the propaganda works. Fascism can't exist here unless it looks exactly how it looks in the theaters or how the media has portrayed it. So Americans waving American flags while calling for bombing campaigns in countries we fucked up doesn't track like outright swastikas because we were never taught that America could be a baddie. Then when people point out that we kind of always have been we get inundated about how x or y is clearly worse so let's ignore what we do.

Trump is only unique in that he sounds more idiotic than some other Republicans. However while he had Jan 6 the Brooks Brothers Riot already happened and was actually successful. Yet all the people involved with that are considered 'normal' and haven't been taken to 1000000076 trials. This country has tolerated tyranny for a long time. Libs just like to handwring about it and claim that every demonstrably sinful thing America has done is ok because America is exceptional.
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Re: 2024 Election Thread

Post by Neo Phonelobster Prime »

MGuy wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2024 5:33 pm
Fascism can't exist here unless it looks exactly how it looks in the theaters or how the media has portrayed it.
And it has to be EXACTLY. Like I said this one time our red skull without the red looking immigration minister turned our customs officials into a paramilitary force, named them border force and dressed them in knock off SS Uniforms.

But it was KNOCK OFF SS, without the official merchandise lightning bolts and skulls and other precise details. So nothing wrong with it nothing to see here, move along.
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