Why do we still have attribute rolls and skill checks?

[Lago PARANOIA]

Instead of attributes, why not just have ability blocks that automatically let you do certain things and give you a chance at doing rarer things?

First we establish a baseline for what a 'totally average, untrained person' can automatically do, such as being able to sprint for however many minutes, survive on how many days of water and food, so on.

Then we invent ability blocks. For example, you have an ability block of 'Athletic 1'. This lets you automatically do things like swim the English Channel after a good breakfast, lets you rock climb barehanded, lets you polevault to Olympic heights, so on. If you want to do something slightly beyond your realm of awesome, like rock climb barehanded with a 150 lb. weight strapped to your back, that's when you break out the d20. Your DM sets an arbitrary DC then a roll against it is something like this, which we will call the Heroics Roll:

1d20 + Your Character Level + Sub-feat bonus + Synergy Bonus + What the fuck ever bonus. That's not important.

Then you could have Athletic 2, which is now getting into the Beowulf level of manliness like being able to swim for days on end while holding your breath, climb up the Sears tower using your thumbs with a truck tied to your legs, and leap small buildings in a single bound. If you somehow need to do something slightly awesome than even THAT, like swimming up Niagra falls during a hurricane, you follow the same formula.

Opposed rolls work normally. High level characters generally beat out lower-level characters like the current system, but they're still on the RNG. You only get your ass handed to you when you try to oppose someone who has an ability block that's just better than you. Still, if for some reason you just HAVE to do an opposed roll, the enemy gets bigass bonuses (like +20 for every tier they have on you). That way, you only have a prayer of beating them if you outclass them in levels and have magical assistance in your corner pocket and you get a morale bonus from your dead little sister cheering you on and what the fuck ever.

[ludomastro]

You could; however, have you never tripped over your own feet? Have you never dropped a glass? That doesn't mean that you have a negative Athletic score, it just means that you screw up occasionally.

I would agree that in non-stressful situations, your idea works just fine. In stressful one, not so much.

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By the way, have you looked at the FATE and FUDGE systems?

[CatharzGodfoot]

D20 games can represent a minimum 5% chance of failure with an ability check. That's way too high a chance of tripping over your own feet, unless you're completely uncoordinated.

But characters don't roll check to see if they stumble slightly while walking to the armorer's shop; they only roll when it matters. As a result, skilled characters that have a chance of failing do so much more than they should, and do so catastrophically.


My point is that Lago's system would work pretty well for a non-comedic game, because it ignores the very small chance that a competent person has of failing at a trivial task, but keeps the randomness in opposed checks and difficult tasks.

[Edit] Fate and Fudge work differently because they're on a what, 4d3 system? I'm not sure how that works out. Probably a bit better.

[Username17]

So you want to go back to the old Extraordinary Strength rules? The ones where people with human strength could do "human strength stuff" and people with extraordinary strength (and giant strength) had a "Bend Bars / Lift Gates" chance...

-Username17

[JonSetanta]

Is this related? I see similarities.

[Cynic]

So you want to go back to the old Extraordinary Strength rules? The ones where people with human strength could do "human strength stuff" and people with extraordinary strength (and giant strength) had a "Bend Bars / Lift Gates" chance...

-Username17

Isn't that part of what this whole, issue of I want my sword-wielder to lasso hurricanes and ride lightning bolts is about? I mean if he can lasso hurricanes but he can't bend a frigging bar, it's pretty sad, in my opinion.

edit: word fixage. my mind blurted out a random word and my hand typed it.

[CatharzGodfoot]

I mean if he can lasso hurricanes but he can't bend a frigging bar, it's pretty sad, in my opinion.

That's just, like, your opinion, man. There's room for both Paul Bunyan and Pecos Bill.

At any rate, the scaling on a system like this has to be highly game dependent. The steps Lago specified would work great for superheroes, but poorly for more 'boring' (human) characters.

[Cynic]

I mean if he can lasso hurricanes but he can't bend a frigging bar, it's pretty sad, in my opinion.

That's just, like, your opinion, man. There's room for both Paul Bunyan and Pecos Bill.

At any rate, the scaling on a system like this has to be highly game dependent. The steps Lago specified would work great for superheroes, but poorly for more 'boring' (human) characters.

Oh, I'm not asking for the lassoing of hurricanes, I've just been amused by the sudden resurgence in the asking for such things on the forum all of a sudden. I just brought it up again because someone had brought up lassoing hurricances as an issue of super-heroics.

[Username17]

I'm actually walling on what attributes to even have in a Superheroes game. Speed and Strength, generally regarded as prime attribute fodder are definitely not attributes, but powers that you either have or do not have. A character with super strength can lift and throw a car and everyone else has "human strength."

-Username17

[virgil]

Fighting skill, perception, courage?

[Manxome]

Depends what you want attributes to do, naturally. But if you're looking for something that could modify combat without stepping on anyone's powers, I might consider something like these:

Finesse or Precision: The hero's ability to use her powers in delicate or artful ways. Depending on mechanics, this might influence:

• Reliability of attacks or other powers
• Chance or intensity of critical success or failure
• Bonus precision damage (e.g. sneak attack)
• Ability to control where someone ends up if you hit them with a knockback effect, or where you end up if you get knocked back
• Ability to end up exactly where you want after using a difficult movement maneuver (short-range teleport, acrobatic stunt, etc.)

Focus or Control: The hero's ability to pay attention to many things at once or switch rapidly between tasks. Depending on mechanics, this might influence:

• How easy it is to maintain an ongoing effect (or several such effects)
• Ability to attack many opponents at once (e.g. whirlwind-like stuff)
• Ability to defend yourself from many opponents at once (e.g. flanking)
• Ability to notice and react to surprises (ambushes, sucker punches, etc.), especially while distracted

Concentration or Inertia: The hero's ability to stick to a particular task or goal and avoid being diverted, physically or mentally. Depending on mechanics, this might influence:

• Chance of your powers (or other actions) being interrupted
• Ability to "power through" enemy defenses, or prevent enemies from powering through yours
• Resistance to behavior-modifying effects, like taunts, fear, confusion, etc.

Insight or Knowledge: A hero's mastery of subtlety and minutia. Depending on mechanics, this might influence:

• Ability to guess what powers others possess, or understand the effects of a power you've observed
• Effectiveness of and/or resistance to feints, illusions, and other such trickery
• Identify (or create) terrain features that could be exploited in battle (weak ceilings/floors, improvised weapons, swinging from chandeliers, etc.)

I don't have as much knowledge of superhero canon as some others on this forum, but those seem to me like they'd be mostly orthogonal to typical superpowers and useful to most or all archetypes.