Drawing on Frank's ideas for a campaign I'm planning

The homebrew forum

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
koz
Duke
Posts: 1585
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:39 pm
Location: Oz

Drawing on Frank's ideas for a campaign I'm planning

Post by koz »

So here's the thing. While I was busy lurking on TGD, like I do often, I saw this little gem in one of Frank's posts.
Frank Trollman wrote:D&D would be a better game if the available classes were Shadowcaster, Binder, Totemist, Warlock, and Warblade. It would be better still if those classes were made in such a manner as to have been "edited" and "playtested" of course; but having a list of classes that actually mean something other than just handing you some (possibly selectable) bonuses on top of the basic adventurer chassis would be enough of a step in the right direction that I'd be willing to live with it.
Now, given that I have plans to return to New Zealand (and thus, in-person gaming) fairly soon, I have decided to give this idea a spin. Essentially, it would be a Tome game, but would ONLY use those four classes (no PrCs, either). However, all other Tome material would be game, and would replace core whenever appropriate.

However, the 'edited and playtested' clause is kinda tricky, as I must admit my understanding of balance is poor in this regard. Fortunately, some of the work has already been done for me, in the form of Frank's unfinished Shadowcaster (post 14), Frank's unfinished Warlock, this here fiendish warlock (page 279). However, there is much left to do, and I was looking for some advice.

The main things I need advising on are:

- What is the pecking order between these classes as they stand and why?
- What should the focus of these classes be, and what is needed to bring them up to Tome standards?

As well as any fixes/suggestions that have already been posted on here, answers to these questions would help me guide my own work. Thanks in advance.
User avatar
Cynic
Prince
Posts: 2776
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Cynic »

Heh, virgileso and I were talking about this the other day. He was doing most of the work.

What i found out was that Magic of Incarnum is odd.
Ancient History wrote:We were working on Street Magic, and Frank asked me if a houngan had run over my dog.
koz
Duke
Posts: 1585
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:39 pm
Location: Oz

Post by koz »

Could you guys post your discoveries on here, even in raw form? I'd like to make this happen somehow, but I fear I don't have the mechanical knowledge necessary to do that.
User avatar
CatharzGodfoot
King
Posts: 5668
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by CatharzGodfoot »

Shadowcaster, Binder, Totemist, Warlock, and Warblade aren't Tome-level material. They can probably cut it most of the time, but even with Tome feats they're probably a little below average (although no worse than the thief acrobat).

If I were to try it, I'd probably avoid using Tome rules beyond maybe magic items.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.

-Josh Kablack

koz
Duke
Posts: 1585
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:39 pm
Location: Oz

Post by koz »

Well, I fully get that much. What I am mostly interested in is why - what is it that makes them subpar? That way, I would know what to fix.
User avatar
Cynic
Prince
Posts: 2776
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Cynic »

magic of incarnum --

apply a soul bind then apply essentia to power it up and then apply chakra to super power it up.
technically you can do it in any order but I think that's the most optimal form.

i'm going off hte top of my head and htis was just virgil repeating this to me. so i might have misheard something.



the binder is subpar because he definitely does not do scaling damage and his class selections only matter when you prc him into knight of a specific binder.

the reason that frank says that it would work with these four/five classes ( i don't remember the shadowcaster being mentioned) is because of the flavor.

as i put it. fancy melee (warblade) fancy arcane (warlock) fancy diviner (totemist -- i had thought it was a diviner at that point, but it turns out to be a fancy shapechanger-esque) and fancy skill monkey (binder).

It gives D&D flavor. That's what Frank's shooting for. rather than the lame old-ness of retarded-ness that the codzilla/grapplemancer/hulking hurler/bard combo.
Ancient History wrote:We were working on Street Magic, and Frank asked me if a houngan had run over my dog.
koz
Duke
Posts: 1585
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:39 pm
Location: Oz

Post by koz »

Agreed on these points. Having done some thinking on the binder, I will likely post some stuff on him in a separate thread for critique. Could someone remind me of the level 10 Same Game Test?
User avatar
Bigode
Duke
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Bigode »

Use Cielingcat's warlock. Call this a totemist if you must. All SGCs here. Depending on exact intent, this might prove interesting for the binder; I'm considering revising that book mostly to the exclusion of ToM, but that involves having actually more than 1 pact class.
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)
brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!
LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.
koz
Duke
Posts: 1585
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:39 pm
Location: Oz

Post by koz »

Wow, thanks Bigode! The SGCs are particularly helpful.
Post Reply