Drawing on Frank's ideas for a campaign I'm planning

[koz]

So here's the thing. While I was busy lurking on TGD, like I do often, I saw this little gem in one of Frank's posts.

D&D would be a better game if the available classes were Shadowcaster, Binder, Totemist, Warlock, and Warblade. It would be better still if those classes were made in such a manner as to have been "edited" and "playtested" of course; but having a list of classes that actually mean something other than just handing you some (possibly selectable) bonuses on top of the basic adventurer chassis would be enough of a step in the right direction that I'd be willing to live with it.

Now, given that I have plans to return to New Zealand (and thus, in-person gaming) fairly soon, I have decided to give this idea a spin. Essentially, it would be a Tome game, but would ONLY use those four classes (no PrCs, either). However, all other Tome material would be game, and would replace core whenever appropriate.

However, the 'edited and playtested' clause is kinda tricky, as I must admit my understanding of balance is poor in this regard. Fortunately, some of the work has already been done for me, in the form of Frank's unfinished Shadowcaster (post 14), Frank's unfinished Warlock, this here fiendish warlock (page 279). However, there is much left to do, and I was looking for some advice.

The main things I need advising on are:

- What is the pecking order between these classes as they stand and why?
- What should the focus of these classes be, and what is needed to bring them up to Tome standards?

As well as any fixes/suggestions that have already been posted on here, answers to these questions would help me guide my own work. Thanks in advance.

[Cynic]

Heh, virgileso and I were talking about this the other day. He was doing most of the work.

What i found out was that Magic of Incarnum is odd.

[koz]

Could you guys post your discoveries on here, even in raw form? I'd like to make this happen somehow, but I fear I don't have the mechanical knowledge necessary to do that.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Shadowcaster, Binder, Totemist, Warlock, and Warblade aren't Tome-level material. They can probably cut it most of the time, but even with Tome feats they're probably a little below average (although no worse than the thief acrobat).

If I were to try it, I'd probably avoid using Tome rules beyond maybe magic items.

[koz]

Well, I fully get that much. What I am mostly interested in is why - what is it that makes them subpar? That way, I would know what to fix.

[Cynic]

magic of incarnum --

apply a soul bind then apply essentia to power it up and then apply chakra to super power it up.
technically you can do it in any order but I think that's the most optimal form.

i'm going off hte top of my head and htis was just virgil repeating this to me. so i might have misheard something.



the binder is subpar because he definitely does not do scaling damage and his class selections only matter when you prc him into knight of a specific binder.

the reason that frank says that it would work with these four/five classes ( i don't remember the shadowcaster being mentioned) is because of the flavor.

as i put it. fancy melee (warblade) fancy arcane (warlock) fancy diviner (totemist -- i had thought it was a diviner at that point, but it turns out to be a fancy shapechanger-esque) and fancy skill monkey (binder).

It gives D&D flavor. That's what Frank's shooting for. rather than the lame old-ness of retarded-ness that the codzilla/grapplemancer/hulking hurler/bard combo.

[koz]

Agreed on these points. Having done some thinking on the binder, I will likely post some stuff on him in a separate thread for critique. Could someone remind me of the level 10 Same Game Test?

[Bigode]

Use Cielingcat's warlock. Call this a totemist if you must. All SGCs here. Depending on exact intent, this might prove interesting for the binder; I'm considering revising that book mostly to the exclusion of ToM, but that involves having actually more than 1 pact class.

[koz]

Wow, thanks Bigode! The SGCs are particularly helpful.