Rant: Riding dog is second tier!1!1! (Paizo)

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:38 am

FUCKING RETARDS.

Jesus-fucking-Christ, I hate every single fuckwit on the Paizo forums who is pushing for the riding dog to be "tier 2" of druid animal companion options. I want all of them to die in a fire.

Their reasoning for thinking this? HOLY SHIT, PLAYERS CAN'T AFFORD THEM WHEN THEY FIRST START THE GAME, SO GIVING THE DRUID A FREE FUCKING RIDING DOG IS A BLATANT POWER IMBALANCE. Yeah, because that CR 1 dog really shouldn't be taken until LEVEL THREE because it costs something.

Druids shouldn't be able to have horses, either! They're like expensive, and the other players might be jealous because the druid gets a HORSE! And that's waaaay too powerful! It can like carry things and run real fast and do a hoof attack and shit! And the druid can ride on it!

...Over the past week, I've seen more fuckwittery spawned by the druid hate on the Paizo forums, and it makes me want to ram a steak knife into my anus just so that I can take my mind off how goddamn retarded they are.

I hope Jason doesn't go for this bullshit. It's fucking painful to contemplate. Just fucking like I'm trepanating myself with a corkscrew and then pouring vinegar and piss into the hole.

And here we have more moronic suggestions.

It's just a fucking trainwreck. I hope that none of the dick-licking mouth-breathers in these threads have the capacity to breed.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:54 am

Frankly, I think that Druid Animal Companions were extremely poorly done. But one of the ways they were poorly done is in that it used monster listings at all. Having an animal that's supposed to be the equal of a 1st level Fighter is all well and good, but that's overpowered at first level and kind of meaningless at 3rd. Animal companions should just come in a type based on where and how it moves, and then have a stat line relevant to the level you're playing at. It'll take up more pages in the Player's Handbook, but it'll use up a lot less space over all.

And then if people want really weird crap like Goblin Sharks:

...then they just do that. They grab an "aquatic animal companion" template and it has the same damn profile as if they took a Wolf Squid or a Starmie. Because yeah, going off actual monster manual listings is never going to work. The actual demands on an animal companion - that it be tough enough to survive at your level and offensively weak enough to not overpower the character ordering it around - are not met by the vast majority of animals in the book. Sure, the Bison kind of fits that bill, but a lot more of them are things like leopards - offensively powerful enough to make the whole druid package unbalanced while at the same time made of paper mache.

-Username17

RandomCasualty2 · Post by **RandomCasualty2** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:03 am

I'm not really sure what the best way to do animal companions are. On its face I'm thinking that you probably should need to wait a bit before getting your first companion and that your companion definitely shouldn't be PC strength. You can't start with a companion that's as good a fighter as your party fighter, that's just broken, unless they want to do something crazy like delay druid casting progression and give him the companion instead. So you start with only 0 level spells, similar to a bard, but you've got a wolf. That might be somewhat ok.

But the point where you've got a bear and then you wildshape into a bear so you're actually playing two bears is nuts.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:07 am

Frank: I suggested this. Is that sort of what you're thinking of?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:13 am

Psychic Robot wrote:Frank: I suggested this. Is that sort of what you're thinking of?

Yeah, something kind of like that. There are holes in your numbers, but that kind of nit picking isn't really important at this stage.

-Username17

Caedrus · Post by **Caedrus** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:23 pm

Psychic Robot wrote:Frank: I suggested this. Is that sort of what you're thinking of?

I find it laughable and extremely depressing at the same time that Jason Buhlman finds a giant bat "unknowable."

Flying, horned, rideable mammal. Oh noes.

Absentminded_Wizard · Post by **Absentminded_Wizard** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:34 pm

And PR's system wouldn't allow the giant bat anyway, since only small companions can take the Flier template.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:01 pm

what would be suggested then? I mean I really like that. I've been contemplating running a tome game recently and I've been wondering what to do about the druid in the game. He is a little more powerful than the Cleric and the wizard.

P_R's system seems interesting but the numbers are strange and I don't know how to fix them. Help?

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:39 pm

The ideal solution, as usual, is probably ad hoc. Find out what the druid wants and stat it up. Make it advance however you like.

Otherwise, I'd just use normal druid animal companions and try not to worry about the minor imbalance. Throw some magical metal armor and an int-booster at the PCs.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:12 am

Jason sez...T. rexes at level 1!

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:27 am

I want one!

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:00 am

"I'ma dinosauuuuuur!" says the Druid.

And everyone trembled in terror for lo, the Druid was broken.

Thematically speaking it wouldn't be a bad thing to turn in to dinos at level 1. It would just be... well... very small ones.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:22 am

HAH! He has monitor lizard on the list.

I rarely get to do anything but GM, but once some chump decided to run an aquatic D&D campaign and gave my first level druid the option of taking some aquatic animal companions.

And for reasons inexplicable decided to offer a straight up (he may have knocked a hit die off it, I don't recall or care. ) MM Lizard, Monitor as an option. Which I took because I think they are freaking cool and he seemed like a highly flexible amphibious option.

We played ONE game. It is widely known around here now as "The Monitor Lizard Game". A story of a heroic monitor lizard and his plucky band of side kicks.

There was seriously not one challenge we encountered that the lizard didn't solve for us single handedly. Oh we struggled along at its side but ultimately it was Mr Lizard who was dragging our unconscious/semi-conscious asses out of trouble or pulling us up a cliff face with a rope when the fighter and rogue already fell off, etc...

Bar brawl? Monitor lizard eats everyone.

Some mini boss wizard fool getting in our faces with spells and junk? Monitor lizard mobilises across the intervening enemies and takes him down.

Sudden need to climb a ridiculous sheer surface obstacle? Don't ask the fighter, the Monitor Lizard is a better climber, tie a rope to him. He can pull us up with his mighty strength too.

Need a door kicked in? Call Lizards'R'Us. We may have a solution.

Sneak up and assassinate guards playing cards? Rogue? Hell no, Monitor lizard hits harder than his wimpy sneak attack and has better stealth bonuses.

Wait? What's that Mr Lizard? Your notable listen and spot checks detect danger? Found the stuff we were looking for? Etc...?

And so on.

I mean I KNOW animal companions are cool, and I KNOW the regular monitor lizard is actually an even slightly better adventurer than a Wolf and notably better than many 1st level characters, but that was some hilarious first hand experience.

Judging__Eagle · Post by **Judging__Eagle** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:57 am

Jeezus, a 22 HP creature in a lvl 1 game, with moderate AC, 5-12 dmg per hit, +5 to hit (hits most CR 1 things on a 10+, and hard) and noticable mods on several crucial skills.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:55 am

That's the funniest story I've heard in awhile.

Hey, someone should try to run a Giant Crab game. That will definitely be a hoot and a half!

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:48 am

Fascinating, Paizo took 'several' things out in their Beta document that directly affect rogues.
* Thrown splash weapons cannot do precision damage.
* Grease explicitly does not make victims flat-footed.
* Blink does not make victims flat-footed when you attack, also explicitly.

I wonder what other little things where done...

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:35 am

Yes, because as we all know, the thing that is wrong with third edition is that rogues can kill things.

-Username17

Absentminded_Wizard · Post by **Absentminded_Wizard** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:05 am

Apparently, they can't make up their mind whether rogues are underpowered ("None of the morons I play with takes more than two levels of rogue.") or overpowered ("OMG! Sneak attack makes rogues better than fighters!").

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:38 am

Well, they did some other buffs to rogues, namely giving them bonus feats (effectively) every even level; though half of the list is underpowered (you gain one cantrip 2/day). They also said they're making more things vulnerable to sneak attacks, though they're vague at what this includes.

SunTzuWarmaster · Post by **SunTzuWarmaster** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:06 pm

Standing on grease doesn't make you flatfooted? Really?

btw, the mini-t-rex looked cool.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:42 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:Yes, because as we all know, the thing that is wrong with third edition is that rogues can kill things.

The problem they have is that Rogues main class feature is actually useful.

So they make every vulnerable to SA, but then, to screw it over, they take away everything good to get SA.

Basically, replace [undead/elementals/golems] with [things that see invisible and don't stand between you and the fighter like an idiot] on the (core) rogues list of shit he can never ever sneak attack.

Also, the splash weapons is just them informing us again that they really really hate Frank, and wish to remind him that he is playing D&D wrong!.

A lot of their changes make more sense when you view them under the light of perpetuating the type of D&D that they like at the expense of intelligent play.

They want you to flank with the fighter, because shooting a bow with decent damage is super evil. (And throwing things, that's just crazy talk!)

Judging__Eagle · Post by **Judging__Eagle** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:13 am

I love how using darts or a crossbow to snipe is... badwrongdumb.

I mean, you can't shoot someone in the eye... or neck? Ever?

And the "flank with fighter" thing.... almost never happens in some groups.

Some fighters are smarter than to stand toe-to-toe with a monster for a full round.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:50 am

Damnable wretches! They suppressed my post and banned me. Guess I shouldn't have argued with the likes of JOSHUA J. FROST.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:28 am

What post did they suppress? And was the ban across avatars, or even permanent?

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:38 am

I was discussing bard changes and I got really smart-assy at the end--Joshie boy had described my post as "snarky," so I ever-so-sweetly requested that he not make values-statements about my posts, since it wasn't conducive to discussion. It was up for a day or two. Today, I find I'm banned and the post gone. Not sure if it's permanent or not.