Fixing 4E Multiclassing

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:51 pm

Okay, so multiclassing in 4th Edition sucks balls. It's great if you just want to get more raw, filthy power but horrible if you want to do anything, you know, non-cheesy with it.

First, let's fix the biggest problem of this. Paragon multiclassing.

Okay, first of all, spending 4 feats to get no class features and low-level powers sucks balls. There's absolutely no need to do that. So here's what I propose.

If you have any combination of the multiclassing feats, you can paragon multiclass. You don't need all four. They're just there to do further power swaps.

Instead of gaining your usual litany of paragon powers, at level 11 you select two class features from your multiclass. At level 16, you gain all the rest of them.

As for the paragon path powers. We can do this one of two ways: we can write up a whole new list of powers just for this instance or we can do something dumb and lame like:
Give them an extra level 7 encounter power from their PMC at level 11, then at level 13 they automatically retrain it.
Give them an extra level 10 utility power at level 12.
At level 20, give them a level 19 daily power from their PMC.

And you know what else? When you pick up your first multiclassing feat like Initiate of the Faith or Soldier of the Faith, you should immediately have the option of being able to retrain your fucking At-Will. You're stuck with this for the rest of your life, not being able to is stupid.

fliprushman · Post by **fliprushman** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:01 am

Interesting fix but it really doesn't address the problems of multiclassing. I feel that a Gestalt-like option would better suit the 4e but I am not sure how to implement it.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:26 pm

Interesting fix but it really doesn't address the problems of multiclassing. I feel that a Gestalt-like option would better suit the 4e but I am not sure how to implement it.

It's just supposed to be a slapdash fix for right now. The issue of saves, initial feats, hp, and healing surges still need to be addressed.

Really, I think the entire class and attribute system needs an overhaul but that's the best we can work with right now.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:12 am

If you make HP and skills the same for every class, you could just make it 1 feat/class ability and allow full purchase from the class list. It won't be balanced, because most class abilities blow feats out of the water and some really suck compared to others, but it would basically make it into a system where classes are defined by attributes.

erik · Post by **erik** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:58 am

I honestly would have no problem with allowing anyone to cherry pick any class power/exploit at their listed levels. Heck, I'd even offer to let them switch the stats around in most cases if they desired to do so.

I can't think of any power whose mechanics are too specific for it to be applied to any class. They're so bland that I just don't care.

If someone from any class wanted to take the cleric's Righteous Brand, I'm okay with that.

If they wanted to change Righteous Brand to any attribute besides strength, I'm even okay with that. I have to figure that eventually they're going to make powers where every power's mechanical effect is duplicated but with a different stat, so I might as well skip to the end of that set of train tracks. If it is balanced for strength, then it should be balanced for anything else too.

To multiclass, allow the selection of 1 other class which you can spend a feat upon to gain all their class features and paragon paths. Everyone's gonna do it, but so what?

Aktariel · Post by **Aktariel** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:24 am

Well, then really you wind up with people who have tens in all stats except one, which is pumped as far to crazytown as it can be.

Which is ok, I guess, in that it eliminates that dual-stat bullshit that clerics have going on.

Essentially, to create a "new" 4e power, you can just mix and match from other powers of equivalent level, pick a stat to tie it to, and it'll be pretty balanced.

erik · Post by **erik** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:15 am

There are still skills tied to stats, and defenses tied to stats, along with a few other minor fringe benefits (hp/healing surges to con mostly), but still there will be a lot more pointy characters with a stat maxxed out as you rightly note, but I can't honestly bring myself to be that broken up about it.

So far as I can tell, all that really defines a class is the skills and feats they get for free (armor profs and hp/extra surges are all pretty well covered by feats) and their class features, which are pretty basic.

Powers could just as easily be described differently or governed by a different attribute/proficiency/implement and be put in an entirely different "class list" without anyone being the wiser.

It'd make the book a helluva lot cleaner if all the classes were packed into a 21 page spread and the powers were in their own section all together.

If I were to hypothetically have a copy of the book in pdf format, I would be totally pissed off each time I have to "flip" nearly 50 pages just to look at a different class. I'd be even more hypothetically pissed if I had a physical copy and I pretty much would have to fucking apply sticky tags to label each class for reference like it was a college text book, just to find the classes quickly.