Revenge of Threads that Make Us Laugh, Cry, or Both

[ckafrica]

Does JaronK only talk about Factotums? I really don't think I've ever seen him talk about anything else. Isn't it the most broken class written in 3e that gets banned out of hand by any but the most naive of DMs? (I really don't know cause I've never looked at it, it just seems to be what I've heard)

[Maxus]

Haha, NachtSieger is full of fail.

Interesting and varied magic items? I see you accidentally typed "3e" instead of "4e".

This dude hasn't looked at much, has he?

The SRD has that Demon Armor and the Spined Shield. Even the Sun Shield and that Sun-sword-thing are interesting.

And if you browse around....

http://www.planewalker.com/041123/cape-chains

http://www.planewalker.com/041120/hells ... on-bracers

http://www.planewalker.com/search/node/Chocolate

[Roy]

Does JaronK only talk about Factotums? I really don't think I've ever seen him talk about anything else. Isn't it the most broken class written in 3e that gets banned out of hand by any but the most naive of DMs? (I really don't know cause I've never looked at it, it just seems to be what I've heard)

Nah. They're nowhere near the strongest class. To qualify as that, they'd need to be able to have full spellcasting off one or more of the following lists: Cleric, Druid, Wizard.

Basically JaronK obsesses over Factorums and gets the details wrong often in much the same way Faelryinth obsesses over sword and board turtles. To illustrate, here is Faelryinth getting mocked in a long post. Compare and contrast styles.

Maxus: Thing is, that adventurer is probably wearing some heavy armor, carrying a weapon and other worn equipment, and holding a bag of holding at the least. So it is possible, you'd just need more than 20 str.

A quick look at Jaron's bat reveals it has 23 after the size increase. I don't know how much Warbeast adds, but that just brings us back to wtf, advanced warbeasts for sale?

Edit: Here is some more Win:

[Psychic Robot]

Epic win. Any chance you can link to Faelrynth's post that Aelbabble owned?

[ubernoob]

So, I've got some tasty irony right here. Well, maybe not irony, but it feels close.

...
Asking for negative fu after I said repeatedly to stop was icing on the cake.
...

Which is odd. The whole panda thing? Get Elennsar to realize that Fu really doesn't matter so he would stop his drivel from derailing threads. The "icing on the cake" was me actively trying to solve a problem. I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at that the icing on the cake was me actively helping.

[Roy]

Epic win. Any chance you can link to Faelrynth's post that Aelbabble owned?

Long since deleted. But the spoiler has it all.

[Psychic Robot]

Nuts. I wanted to see him flail.

DUDE COMBAT EXPERTISE -20 TO ATTACKS SO YOU CAN'T BE HIT

Hurfdurfdurf. Is he assuming that pit fiends have the IQ of a rhinoceros or something? If the pit fiend can't hit the fighter, he's just going to go after someone else.

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[Roy]

Nuts. I wanted to see him flail.

DUDE COMBAT EXPERTISE -20 TO ATTACKS SO YOU CAN'T BE HIT

Hurfdurfdurf. Is he assuming that pit fiends have the IQ of a rhinoceros or something? If the pit fiend can't hit the fighter, he's just going to go after someone else.

Enemies functioning as if they were Int - even if they are not is one of his baseline assumptions. He actually posted this, presenting it as a 'reasonable house rule'. Right along with 'nerfing THFing into shit, so SAB is worth a damn'. Except that just means you have two shit styles now. Oops!

If you want to see him flail just make a thread bashing turtles on any D&D forum, and he'll eventually find it and stalk troll you for it. Tested and proven.

Just link it here so we can enjoy the lulz.

Though actually the Pit Fiend would just do something else anyways, since their standard tactic is basically kill half the party and cripple the rest, then melee.

To Faelryinth's credit, his turtles are at least half decent. Course they're still turtles and therefore auto fail, but his single minded obsessiveness at least leads to basic competence relative to the field. There was some Abraham Spalding guy on Faelfinder that basically said 'Hey look, AC matters! I spent nearly every single GP on it and now things can't hit me that often!' Except it's level 16, where you're fighting true dragons and planetars and shit as routine encounters. They don't give a fuck because they can hit anyways, or they don't give a fuck because they aren't attacking AC. The guy had Con 12 and saves of 11/11/5... Epic Fucking Fail much? Turtle with a shell defect. He then moved the goal posts all over the fucking Multiverse when called on his flaws.

Also, this AS guy was assuming the casters were spending combat rounds on short term fairly minor buffs, and slightly longer term buffs that use high level spell slots. Specifically Haste, Prayer, and Greater Heroism. Which is what is known as lying statistics because those rounds are obviously better spent ending the fucking encounter. He should have boots for Haste but doesn't because he wasted his cash on the trap that is AC. Prayer's only up if Persist is in, in which case mundane melees fail at life. Greater Heroism is a 6th level spell, and only lasts a few minutes so to be up for every fight it'd need to get cast multiple times.

Edit: That's fucking epic.

[Psychic Robot]

Time to test your theory.

EDIT: I forgot, I'm tempbanned.

[Roy]

Lol @ BG.

[SunTzuWarmaster]

Heh, anytime I see a 20 level build to be used at level 20, I just walk away.

Also:
Tactics Round-By-Round
The balor is most effective as a ranged combatant, using its spell-like abilities to attack from a distance.

Prior to combat: Unholy aura.
Round 1: Fire storm or implosion and quickened telekinesis, or summon additional demons. If the balor does not deem itself seriously threatened, it conserves abilities usable only once per day and uses blasphemy instead.
Round 2: Insanity or power word stun.
Round 3: Full melee attack with weapons, including entangle with whip.
Round 4: Teleport or fly away with entangled foe to reestablish range; repeat round 1 and continue.



Um, if you are trying to jack your AC SO HIGH(!) that the Balor can't hit you, you are clearly choosing the wrong counterattack method, as it pretty much only melee attacks you in round 3 (after you are dead), IF then.

[JonSetanta]

I'm amazed I actually read through the first page of that. What a bunch of stupid [EDITED], may they all contract a rhinovirus.

Brutal. May their left nostrils ever-bleed from sneezing like mine a month ago.

[Psychic Robot]

Noooo, they took away my ability to give fu!

[virgil]

I don't know what to think of this, especially because I don't have the time to look at it right now. But here's some feats made by Bulmahn that he's adding to the pile in 3.P.

HERE

[Psychic Robot]

That's mildly exciting. It indicates that Paizo might not fail entirely.

EDIT:

Greater Feint (Combat)
You are skilled at making enemies overreact to your maneuvers.

Prerequisites: Improved Feint, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: Whenever you use feint to cause an opponent to lose his Dexterity bonus, he loses that bonus until the beginning of your next turn, in addition to losing his Dexterity bonus against your next attack, if that attack does not come before your next turn.

Normal: Creatures you feint lose their Dexterity bonus against your next attack.

Sneak attack AoOs? Karmic Strike? Robilar's Gambit? Yes, please.

[PhoneLobster]

That feat is really crappy you know.

It's a pure incremental team bonus with high requirements in specific cooperative team build territory.

It brings nothing good or fun to the table.

[Leress]

Preface: I just want to put a personally Fuck you to JB for pretty much taking already published feats and changing the damn names.

Acrobatic Steps

ehh not really worth the feat.

Advance (Combat)

Yeah, I can walk up to an enemy so they can full attack me when their turn comes up.

Bleeding Critical (Combat, Critical)

ehh, okay

Blinding Critical (Combat, Critical)

lame

Critical Focus (Combat)

Thanks for taking a already published feat and making it suck more.

Critical Mastery (Combat)

Ha you have to take 14 levels of fighter...and appreantly you can't go having crit effects stacking. Why can't fighters have nice things?

Deafening Critical (Combat, Critical)

Really dumb

Disruptive (Combat)

Just take Mage slayer and tell this feat to eat shit.

Exhausting Critical (Combat, Critical)

This could be nice, it would be better with the ability to stack crit effects.

Fleet

This was already published before (and a better version) and it was shit then.

Greater Bull Rush (Combat)

Ehh most likely won't be any good

Greater Disarm (Combat)

Wow this feat is dumb and is actually worse than the requirements.

Greater Feint (Combat)

Ehh.

Greater Grapple (Combat)

ehh

Greater Overrun (Combat)

Sucks.

Greater Penetrating Strike (Combat)

ehh

Greater Shield Focus (Combat)

Fucking lame

Greater Shield Mastery (Combat)

Bloody hell how much dump diving can there be?

Greater Sunder (Combat)

Sundering cleave is better...wow I can't believe I said that.

Greater Trip (Combat)

What? Why not just get improved trip and be done with it.

Improved Greater Fortitude

Improved Iron Will

Improved Lightning Reflexes

Three flavors of lame

Lunge (Combat)
You can strike foes that would normally be out of reach.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: You can increase the reach of your melee attacks by 5 feet by taking a –4 penalty to your AC until your next turn. You must decide to use this ability before any attacks are made.

Guess melee can't have nice things huh?

Master Craftsman

Wow, you can now be a second rate craftsmans now.

Nimble Moves

Whatever

Penetrating Strike (Combat)

lame

Powerful Critical (Combat, Critical)

This could fun if critical feat effects stacked, but no it's not even that good.

Shall Not Pass (Combat)
You can stop foes that try to move past you.
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes.
Benefit: Whenever an enemy provokes an attack of opportunity due to moving through your adjacent squares, a successful hit causes them to stop moving for the rest of their turn. Enemies can still take the rest of their action, but cannot move.

Hello SRD stand still except without the save.

Shield Focus (Combat)

Shield Mastery (Combat)

Tiny bonuses that just eat feats for lunch

Sickening Critical (Combat, Critical)

Lame

Spellbreaker (Combat)

What the hell why even split up the mage slayer feat

Staggering Critical (Combat, Critical)

Don't care

Step Up (Combat)

Didn't I see this published someplace else before?

Strike Back (Combat)

Hey, this kinda cool...ready action...spoke too soon

Stunning Critical (Combat, Critical)

yeah I can stun finally...ohh caster where doing that 15 levels ago...guess I'm just late to the party. It is the better of the critical feats

Tiring Critical (Combat, Critical)

Lame

You know if you are going to dumpster dive at least take the good stuff. It's like reading spells made by SKR.

[Psychic Robot]

Psychic Robot,

Was there a part of "save your comments and feedback for the design forum" that was unclear?

Please wait until the appropriate forum.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Lol.

EDIT: Aubrey the Failformed fails really hard. Master Craftsman allows characters to use their ranks in Craft as caster level for crafting magical items. I suggested allowing them to use Spellcraft to emulate the spells.

While I don't know for certain, I think the intention is to allow item creation by those who are not casters. Only casters normally have Spellcraft.

GEE THANKS FOR THAT INSIGHT, BUT WHAT ELSE IS IT THAT ONLY CASTERS HAVE? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Hmmmmm.

Hmm.

[virgil]

Wow, one of the posters is apparently afraid of the Fleet feat because it stacks with everything. That's right, he thinks it's broken to go that little bit faster. Oh, and he likes to repeat himself alot about how he doesn't want feats that have class level prerequisites (made my eyes glaze over the rest of his post by the third time).

[Roy]

So basically they're still a bunch of incompetent dumbfucks that still haven't learned the difference between buffs and nerfs, much less how to design a professional grade system.

Amirite or amirite?

They fell apart pretty fast without a certain clue bat toting enforcer to keep them in line.

[SunTzuWarmaster]

Honestly, who the fuck cares about those feats.

All of the "critical" feats are worthless unless you are always making crits somehow (samurai), at which point the BAB requirements make them suck. Really, Sickening Critical, for the cost of 2 feats and BAB 11 allows you to make an opponent take -2 on all rolls if you score a critical. At what point was that considered good?

Disruptive almost got it right, except that casters always make the "casting defensively" check, because DC 15 is crazy-easy to make (you auto-make it at level 11 if you have no bonuses). Making that DC a whopping 4 more at level 6 doesn't make people care (9 + bonus + items against 19), and that is the best that it ever gets.

Acrobatic steps - no one cares about ignoring 15 feet of difficult terrain, and having a feat requirement to even take the feat is laughable.

Advance - you can move up to a foe and get hit, but only if you take this feat, have 15 Dex, the Dodge feat, and Mobility. Because, for some reason, you can't just make a DC 15 Tumble check.

Fleet - 5 feet of extra movement (stacks with everything). This could be good, if it were 10 feet, you had 6 BAB, and you had the F&K Whirlwind attack feat.

Greater Bull Rush / Greater Grapple / Greater Overrun / Greater Shield Focus / Greater Shield Mastery / Greater Sunder / Greater Trip - In addition to taking TWO feats to do something like Bull Rush someone, they don't actually help you do it, and give limited tactical options. Also, they suck.

Improved Greater Fortitude / Improved Iron Will / Improved Lightning Reflexes - a 1x/day reroll that only applies to a specific save. Woo! At least make it 1x/round to keep it interesting.

Lunge - not bad. Opens the door for more trip-fighters though, and that makes me sad.

Master Craftsman - not too bad, although it does make fighters better crafters than spellcasters...

Nimble Moves - no one cares.

Penetrating Strike - So close! Almost got this one right.

Shall Not Pass - Trip fighter gold. Breaks melee combat from levels ~1-6. For the low cost of 2 feats, your trip-fighter can stop any movement within 15 feet of him.

Shield Focus/Mastery - a 3 feat investment to gain DR 2 at level 4. Shame that you get Adamantine armor next level and make all those feats worthless.

Spellbreaker - too bad NO ONE EVER FAILS the DC 19 check cast defensively check at this level. Level 10 - 13 ranks, +2 for con, +2 for masterwork item = +17 without a feat or real monetary investment.

Step Up - so close to getting this right. If this was a free 5' step when people try to 5' step away from you, AND you got your 5' step, it would be worth taking.

Strike Back - Doesn't suck, but, as said above, readied action... So really, you blew a feat AND a readied action to get ONE attack back at someone that is making a full attack against you? *cry*


Fleet [Skill:Tumble]
You kick ass at moving around.
0 - Your base movement speed increases by 5.
4 - You do not provoke attacks of opportunity by moving through a creature’s threatened area, so long as you end your movement adjacent to that creature.
9 - You may ignore difficult terrain penalties.
14 - You make take a move action as part of a standard action (this move action must actually be moving and not loading a crossbow or other nonsense)
19 - You gain a fly speed equal to double your base movement rate provided that you begin and end each round on a solid surface.

[Guyr Adamantine]

Master Craftsman - not too bad, although it does make fighters better crafters than spellcasters...

They still cannot cast the prerequisite spells.

[virgil]

They can still be cast by other people, at least.

[ubernoob]

I have to laugh at this.

Whether I think it's worthless or not has nothing to do with whether I think it's wise or acceptable to ignore the explicit instructions of a moderator or Admin, if that's what you're getting at. I have my opinions on matters, but I know where I stand in the hierarchy around here. I also happen to know that pissing off the people above me in that hierarchy is not the way to get stuff done.

1) Hierarchy is nothing. Influence is everything. Now, for both we've got the BG's at the very top for influence and that's because Meg, Josh, and Zeke generally know what the fuck they are talking about. Hands down the BGs are listened to. As for AC and Kai, not so much. They do grunt work, but don't wield much influence. Admirable though.
2) And people call me on appeal to authority? Wow, just wow. I actually like the BG moderation for the most part and this sort of yes man crap sickens me.
3) I don't care about being banned. Really, it was predicted and expected for the BGs to cover their asses. I fucking applaud their PR. What I do care about is the complete lack of communication. Deleting a post isn't communication. Rule number one of effective communication: Seek to understand before you seek to be understood. The complete misunderstanding baffles me.