A rogue may gain a bonus feat in place of a special ability.
A creature cannot have a feat that is not a bonus feat unless it meets the prerequisites.
Just let that sink in for a bit.
-Username17
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A rogue may gain a bonus feat in place of a special ability.
A creature cannot have a feat that is not a bonus feat unless it meets the prerequisites.
The Monk and Ranger bonus feats specifically say you can take the bonus feat even if you don't meet the prereqs.
Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, BAB, or other quality designated in order to select or use the feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gais the prerequisites.
A character can't use a feat if he or she has lost the prerequisites.
Creatures often do not have the prerequisites for a bonus feat. If this is so, the creature can still use the feat... A creature cannot have a feat that is not a bonus feat unless it meets the prerequisites.
A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.
A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.
A cleric who chooses the War domain receives the Weapon Focus feat related to his deity's favored weapon as a bonus feat.
The domain language overrides the "may not take" language of the general rule, but not the "may not use" language.
FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1079502149[/unixtime]]A rogue may gain a bonus feat in place of a special ability.A creature cannot have a feat that is not a bonus feat unless it meets the prerequisites.
Just let that sink in for a bit.
-Username17
One can speculate as to what WOTC were trying to say in such a poorly constructed sentence, but its literal meaning states that for a non bonus feat you need to meet the pre-reqs. Nothing more.
Surely in the absence of a specific rule for bonus feats you revert to the general rule for feats ?
Have you noticed that all epic feats gained from class levels (as opposed to character levels) are listed in the srd as being bonus feats ?
The_Hanged_Man at [unixtime wrote:1079648389[/unixtime]]There's no way to get around the fact that the "bonus feats" language you're using refers to monster bonus feats. It's kinda interesting go and look at what other feats are called, but there isn't a single rule that allows a PC, without more specific exceptions, to take and use a feat that they don't meet the prereqs for.
FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1079649003[/unixtime]]Sure there is. Come off it.
It refers to creatures - which includes monsters and normal characters.
I mean, if it said objects, or something else which didn't include normal characters, you'd have a point - but it doesn't and you don't.
-Username17
fbmf at [unixtime wrote:1079716506[/unixtime]]The_Hanged_Man at [unixtime wrote:1079648389[/unixtime]]There's no way to get around the fact that the "bonus feats" language you're using refers to monster bonus feats. It's kinda interesting go and look at what other feats are called, but there isn't a single rule that allows a PC, without more specific exceptions, to take and use a feat that they don't meet the prereqs for.
But all of the PC races are in the Monster Manual. Are you saying that if the DM makes up a high level rogue as an NPC the NPC gets the feats, but a player maikng a PC does not?
Game On,
fbmf
The_Hanged_Man wrote:It says "monster bonus feats."
3.5 MM p.7 (same paragraph is in the SRD as well) wrote:Sometimes a creature has one or more bonus feats, marked with a superscript B. Creatures often do not have the prerequisites for a bonus feat. If this is so, the creature can still use the feat. If you wish to customize the creature with new feats, you can reassign its other feats, but not its bonus feats. A creature cannot have a feat that is not a bonus feat unless it has the feat’s prerequisites.
The MM has a special rule that applies to all monster bonus feats.
If you start applying it everywhere, there's now complications, and every bonus feat has to specifically say whether it requires prereqs or not.
Humans get a bonus feat too, don't they? So can a first level human character choose something like Spring Attack for his bonus feat?