Bonus by level

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:12 am

Okay, we all know wealth is power. The PCs are expected to have a certain amount for each level. My question is, what exactly are they supposed to have?

There is the tables in the DMG II that breakdown how you should build your NPCs, +X weapon, +X armor, etc. But there is no guidance for PCs as far as I can find.

The closest thing is the BoED VoP chart. +X armor bonus at this level, +X to a stat at that level. And I will admit, I tried that out as a monk for a epic game a friend started for kicks. (That is a story of DMs handling special children melees for another day.)

I enjoyed how I got 'level appropriate' (humor me here) increases as I went up in level. I wasn't hanging a new ornament on my Christmas tree. My character was growing in power. That's how I saw it.

So I get to thinking, if I want to reduce the dependancy on magic items, couldn't I just dole out appropriate bonuses at appropriate levels? Any weapon the character uses benefits from a bonus appropriate to their level, any armor they wear gets that requisite bonus. Instead of stat boosters, you just got ability increases.

Does anyone actually know, or can determine, when such increases should be?

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:14 am

That's exactly what something I'm working on is seeking to do. Personally, I'd say: +1 enhancement bonus to attack/damage/AC at level three, and every three levels thereafter. (Max +5 at 15th level or whatever.)

Then pick out the weapon enhancements that are seen as "must have." Automatically give those out depending on their bonus.

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:32 am

I had thought bumping the every four levels ability increase to +2 might be appropriate, and having them increase as the ranger favored enemy bonus does. +4, +2 at 8th, etc. It might need a little more to keep up however.

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:33 am

Read the .pdf here - preferentially all of it, but your main worries are addressed with the Book of Gears appendix and Ctrl+F for "bonus rule" - if there's more than one mention, the one about greater magic weapon.

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:38 am

Thanks Bigode. I have perused most of the Tome, just hadn't gotten to the Book of Gears section.

Scratch that, I have read it. I will have to take some time to refresh on it.

So perhaps Greater Magic Weapon holds the progression I'm looking for.

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:02 am

I'd just go with the item creation rules (3 levels for every + of the item, so 3,6,9,12,15,18)

1/4 like GMW is going to hurt at the high levels. Still at +3 at 15th level? Thats going to suck.

Bothering with the favored enemy bonus isn't really worth the time, mostly because the class isn't worth the time.- just give fighters a better skill array, and let anyone with 3 ranks in survival track.

The ability increase... hmm. On the one hand, you get to completely ridiculous levels of natural ability really quickly. But on the other hand, you probably should make up for the +11 to stats that items can give you.

I actually like the +1 every 4 levels and the +1 to all stats at levels 6, 10, 14 and 18 that the Mongoose Conan system used. Or even the +1 to two, and +1 to all at appropriate break points that 4e uses. You're doing all this shit on an intense schedule and all you get is your primary stat? Crap.

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:36 am

Guys, do remember the Book of Gears does talk about 1/3 (rounded up, BTW); I quoted the Bonus Rule for completeness and pointing that maybe having people actually cast the spells might be interesting, though I'll certainly understand if I get a general "no".

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:10 pm

That goes against the intent I had Bigode. The idea is that the characters grow in power and gain the appropriate bonuses to reflect that and keep them on the power curve. That 15th level character has a +4 level bonus to attacks because he is 15th level, not because he can cast Greater Magic Weapon 1/day.

And I apologize for not wording that clearly enough Voss. I merely used the favored enemy progression as an example for how the ability score increases could progress. I do agree on the 4e ability increases, although I think it would need to be quicker in 3.5 if I remove stat enhancers.

I'm not sure about the item creation rules working as well. +3 at 9th sounds too early, but that could just be kneejerk reaction. I'll have to look at WBL and compare to what could be bought at that level I guess.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:21 pm

Just use the Book of Gears, and hand out personal training upgrades instead of physical items.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:36 pm

The idea is that the characters grow in power and gain the appropriate bonuses to reflect that and keep them on the power curve. That 15th level character has a +4 level bonus to attacks because he is 15th level, not because he can cast Greater Magic Weapon 1/day.

What's the difference?

I'm not sure about the item creation rules working as well. +3 at 9th sounds too early, but that could just be kneejerk reaction.

+3 at level 9 is supposedly the standard. Now actually the WBL rules shaft you tremendously so you're only supposed to get those bonuses if you put a wizard on item creation duty and don't get anything interesting in your pockets. But you're seriously supposed to be doing that.

For example, a 9th level character supposedly picks up ~36000 gp worth of keepers. That's enough for your +3 sword, +3 armor, and +3 Cloak of Resistance. That's seriously supposed to be your shit. The rest of your ~4k worth of goods is supposed to be consumables that you used up recently or will use up soon.

It's a dumb way to play, and it isn't nearly enough to keep warriors going, but that's what the "standard" fighters were getting.

-Username17

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:39 pm

What's the difference?

It's cooler to have it be automatic?

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:45 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:What's the difference?

Completely fluff, and I understand that. Just looking for a way to use it with people that can't understand there is no difference.

FrankTrollman wrote:It's a dumb way to play, and it isn't nearly enough to keep warriors going, but that's what the "standard" fighters were getting.

-Username17

That's what I figured. I'm looking for what would keep them appropriate if I made a chart saying 'you get this, this, and this at this level'. I gather +3 to attacks, +3 to armor, and +3 to saves is right for 9th then, and only scratches the surface.

Ah, magic item creation in the Book of Gears. That helps immensely.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:52 pm

Very roughly you can get a decent setup by assuming that characters have 8 items at most levels and that each of these items provide raw numeric enhancements equal to their assumed bonus levels for PCs of their level (usually +1/3 levels), and that their stuff does other interesting shit that is worth their wealth by level.

-Username17