Ranger - Final Draft

ZER0 · Post by **ZER0** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:54 pm

11d6 fireball... 38.5 damage on average... hm. You know, twice level doesn't really seem like too much after all.

I try to avoid acid whenever possible. Not that I think it's bad, just that it doesn't see enough use (Dragons notwithstanding) to warrant putting it on an equal level with Fire/Cold/Electricity.

So... I could see using Air for Electricity Resistance/Damage, and Astral for flying, but I don't think acid is going to see a use in there anywhere.

I also remembered that Barbarians only get their dice on attacks derived from BAB, so I'll add that clause in with the Ranger. Otherwise, yes, both Rapid Shot and TWF become a little too much.

Swamps = Acrobatics because stuff getting in your way doesn't bother you.

I'll clear up the burrowing; thanks.

I'm not using the Horizon Walker's list so much as using what just plain makes sense. Running up and down hills all day tends to make someone harder to wear out, and more things live digging under sand than digging under rock.

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:41 am

2 features of the same class (rapid shot and damage dice) not synergizing's hilarious, unless done to prompt specific tactical dilemmas. So I'd suggest just lowering the damage dice as to account for extra shots (also, it spares having to remember how many shots use each value).

Aktariel · Post by **Aktariel** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:35 am

Bigode wrote:2 features of the same class (rapid shot and damage dice) not synergizing's hilarious, unless done to prompt specific tactical dilemmas. So I'd suggest just lowering the damage dice as to account for extra shots (also, it spares having to remember how many shots use each value).

Agreed.

ZER0 · Post by **ZER0** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:36 am

Hm. So, let's say 1d6 every four levels then? Or three?

Aktariel · Post by **Aktariel** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:47 am

Doesn't much matter...

every four might look like +1d6 at 1,4,8,12,16, and 20, for a total of 6d6.

every three might look like +1d6 at 3,6,9,12,15,18, which nets you +6d6.

I would vote for every four, in all honesty, though. Maybe just because I like even numbers.

ZER0 · Post by **ZER0** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 7:24 am

Three it is.

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 7:32 pm

One's welcome to not care, but the original damage might've been best approximated with 5d6, since the number of attacks basically doubles - though one might argue upping it a little compensates for a hasted attack not being doubled. More hilariously, I'm aware it gains a planar terrain mastery at 20, but not getting anything else's a hilarious perversion of the "OMG! Capstone!" retardation.

IGTN · Post by **IGTN** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:21 am

Most of the classes in the Tomes (at least, those that had capstones) gave their capstones at 19; this one seems to follow that trend. It makes more sense than handing it out at 20, where, in a campaign that goes that far, it might see use in one encounter. Maybe.

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:05 am

No, I just meant that they get nothing other than the one ability they get at all levels. There isn't anything that belongs at 20, as there are for other classes without being true capstones (which I don't support in any way).

IGTN · Post by **IGTN** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:05 am

Rangers get to turn into a plant (essentially) at 19th level; that looks about as much like a capstone as "you're always raging," or "your first level re-roll ability now always gives 20s" does.

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am

I'm saying I don't want a capstone, I want something at level X, for whatever X, that isn't the thing they get every single level. The fact that the X value in question = 20's a mere coincidence.

SunTzuWarmaster · Post by **SunTzuWarmaster** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:12 pm

I just can't bring myself to care about an ability, that, in all reality won't see play. I like the class, not giving something super-special at level 20 is perfectly fine.

Edit:
Wait a sec, wtf did you do to Make Like a Tree? Yea, I like the "tree as a move action", but now that the trees a ranger makes are not permanent (so he can travel through them). That is crap.

At least include an option like "If a ranger spends 1 hour growing the tree, it can be permanent. The height of a tree is equal in feet to the ranger's level + (ranger level * hours spent) and the width is equal in feet to one quarter of the rangers level + (and additional quarter of ranger level * hours spent). The tree can be of any tree type, even types that are non-native to the area".

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:27 pm

SunTzuWarmaster wrote:I just can't bring myself to care about an ability, that, in all reality won't see play. I like the class, not giving something super-special at level 20 is perfectly fine.

Who's talking about super-special? Or better, or intrinsically different, from the abilities throughout the other the other 19 levels? If "level 20 games don't exist", chop off level 20 ...

ZER0 · Post by **ZER0** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:27 pm

Make Like A Tree wasn't permanent to begin with...

SunTzuWarmaster · Post by **SunTzuWarmaster** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:50 pm

I swear it used to be...

Kinda like the burning fire pillars that the Fire Mage got.

ZER0 · Post by **ZER0** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:27 am

It would seem kind of frivolous to make it able to be permanent.

ZER0 · Post by **ZER0** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:50 am

So I've been thinking of what Bigode mentioned about abilities that lead up to Paralysis Strike, and here's what I've come up with.

Level 4: Remove Entangle, replace it with Stumbling Strike.

Stumbling Strike: As a standard action, a 4th level Ranger can make a single attack roll against a creature he has successfully identified using Hunter's Knowledge. If the attack hits, it deals no damage; instead, the creature struck must make a Fortitude save or have all its movement speeds dropped by 1/2 for a number of rounds equal to the Ranger's class level. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack, but extend the duration.

Level 10: Add Crippling Strike.

Crippling Strike: Starting at 10th level, a Ranger can choose to forgo the extra damage from his Hunter's Knowledge ability and instead deal an amount of Dexterity damage equal to his class level to the target creature. A successful Fortitude save by the targeted creature reduces this damage by half. This ability may only be used once per round.

What do you think?

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:03 am

That Dex damage might be able to instant-kill lots of stuff, so I'd say standard action as well, or something where you can lower damage on all attacks (possibly to your user name, given that the result still might well be instant-kill) to deal incremental Dex damage with each.

Calibron · Post by **Calibron** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:47 am

Crippling Strike is pretty crazy. Compare the Assassin's Death by a Thousand Cuts, which is a 17th level ability.

ZER0 · Post by **ZER0** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:33 am

Oops. I meant "half class level". Oh well. Hm. How about this then?

Crippling Strike: As a standard action, a Ranger can choose to make a single attack against a target that he has successfully identified using his Hunter's Knowledge ability. If the attack hits, the target takes no damage; instead, it takes an amount of Dexterity damage equal to 1/4 the Ranger's class level. Even creatures normally immune to ability damage take this damage, but recover it at a rate of 1 per minute rather than 1 per day.

How's that? Keep in mind that Death by a Thousand Cuts still does Death Attack damage.

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:36 am

ZER0 wrote:Oops. I meant "half class level". Oh well. Hm. How about this then?

Crippling Strike: As a standard action, a Ranger can choose to make a single attack against a target that he has successfully identified using his Hunter's Knowledge ability. If the attack hits, the target takes no damage; instead, it takes an amount of Dexterity damage equal to 1/4 the Ranger's class level. Even creatures normally immune to ability damage take this damage, but recover it at a rate of 1 per minute rather than 1 per day.

How's that? Keep in mind that Death by a Thousand Cuts still does Death Attack damage.

Half level as standard, maybe even entire.

SunTzuWarmaster · Post by **SunTzuWarmaster** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:53 am

Stumbling Strike is bad. They would much rather have the standard action attack from Subtle Cut if they are interested (5 movement damage per 5 damage, no save).

I don't have an answer to what it _should_ be, but both of those are kinda toned-down versions of Subtle Cut, and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

ZER0 · Post by **ZER0** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:05 am

The idea behind these abilities, like Paralysis Strike, is that the Ranger can affect creatures that normally can't be affected in this way.