De-Necessitizing Power Attack
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- Psychic Robot
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De-Necessitizing Power Attack
I doubt that's a word, but here's the gist:
In 3e, Power Attack sucks because it's necessary for "brute" characters to do damage. You see, 3e has a thing against fighters and other heavily-armored characters. You're a fighter, so you don't get nice things--sneak attack, favored enemy, skirmish, and such. (Monks are an exception to this. You're a monk, so you get to suck nuts no matter what.) All these options overcome the specific need for Power Attack--you get bonus damage just from your class. Now, the problem is that fighters are required to use Power Attack if they want to do level-appropriate damage. This is dumb. Power Attack should be able to supply extra damage, but you shouldn't be forced to use it.
So we need a way to fix this.
Let's say we give a level-based bonus to damage, though. Oops, now rogues are doing even more damage, and fighters still get the shaft.
So what's the solution?
In 3e, Power Attack sucks because it's necessary for "brute" characters to do damage. You see, 3e has a thing against fighters and other heavily-armored characters. You're a fighter, so you don't get nice things--sneak attack, favored enemy, skirmish, and such. (Monks are an exception to this. You're a monk, so you get to suck nuts no matter what.) All these options overcome the specific need for Power Attack--you get bonus damage just from your class. Now, the problem is that fighters are required to use Power Attack if they want to do level-appropriate damage. This is dumb. Power Attack should be able to supply extra damage, but you shouldn't be forced to use it.
So we need a way to fix this.
Let's say we give a level-based bonus to damage, though. Oops, now rogues are doing even more damage, and fighters still get the shaft.
So what's the solution?
Last edited by Psychic Robot on Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- Psychic Robot
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Both of those are possible solutions, but then we run into two problems:
1. Rogues get almost the same BAB as fighters. So let's say you get +1d10 damage at +5 BAB and every 5 BAB points thereafter. Well, rogues are getting +3d10 damage and fighters are getting +4d10...at level 20. That's pointless. So instead, we nerf the bonuses--you get +1d6 damage at +5 BAB and every 5 BAB points thereafter. Until you hit +16 BAB. Then all those d6s turn into 2d6s or something. Well, that kind of works, but it feels clunky.
2. Lessening the HP bloat means that you'll have to de-power rogues. (+3d6 sneak attack damage at level 21, lawl.) This is a possible solution, but it requires a ton of reconfiguration.
1. Rogues get almost the same BAB as fighters. So let's say you get +1d10 damage at +5 BAB and every 5 BAB points thereafter. Well, rogues are getting +3d10 damage and fighters are getting +4d10...at level 20. That's pointless. So instead, we nerf the bonuses--you get +1d6 damage at +5 BAB and every 5 BAB points thereafter. Until you hit +16 BAB. Then all those d6s turn into 2d6s or something. Well, that kind of works, but it feels clunky.
2. Lessening the HP bloat means that you'll have to de-power rogues. (+3d6 sneak attack damage at level 21, lawl.) This is a possible solution, but it requires a ton of reconfiguration.
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:You do not seem to do anything.Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
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Probably. But I'd like to make this easy on new players. Also, if a fighter wants to chop somebody in two, I don't want to stand in his way.ubernoob wrote:Shouldn't fighters be focusing more on BC and tactical options and not damage?
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:You do not seem to do anything.Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
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Well, if we accept that Power Attack is a necessity, perhaps we could "fix" it by making it scale to BAB. The rogue isn't going to be using Power Attack either way, so that wouldn't be such a huge deal.
EDIT: Alternatively, we could just give everyone Power Attack for free and let them choose when to use it.
EDIT: Alternatively, we could just give everyone Power Attack for free and let them choose when to use it.
Last edited by Psychic Robot on Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:You do not seem to do anything.Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
That has been my opinion for awhile, though I haven't tested it. I figured giving PA and CE for free to everyone, with a cap at +5. Then an improved version could be bought to increase it to BAB limit. That way, no one has to waste time taking CE to get to the Improved stuff, and melees have a bit more options.
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What if you had a Fighter class ability that occurred at each level they gained a bonus attack that granted a bonus dice of damage to all weapon attacks, with any weapon? A fighter hits level six and, in addition to being able to make 2 attacks, all his attacks also do +1d8 (or whatever) damage. That way, it isn't a function of his BAB, it is a function of being a Level 6, 11, or 16 Fighter.
This. HP ballooning out of all proportion is one of the bigger flaws in both 3rd and 4th edition.TOZ wrote: Figuring out how to lessen the HP bloat?
roughly half the problems of 3rd editions are a product of blowing HP up, and then trying to compensate for it (including CR, power attack and the SoD vs. direct damage dichotomy- if you can kill something in 2 rounds with actual damage, having a 50/50 of killing it with an SoD in 1 round isn't a bad idea).
- Psychic Robot
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Well, you could have a house rule that says, "If your BAB is equal to your level, you get +damage. But not with divine power."
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:You do not seem to do anything.Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
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Then the problem comes with PrCs and multiclassing. I'm not sure there's a great fix in 3e, aside from everyone having PA and making it scale.
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:You do not seem to do anything.Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
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Barbarians and Paladins need nothing to fall back upon. Rangers could use a boost but it somehow seems unfulfilling to just give them the same bonus as Fighters.Roy wrote:Except then, what about every other beatstick that has nothing else to fall back upon?Naszir wrote:How about BAB damage just for Fighters? It could be a class feature called Fighting Prowess.
Fighters deal extra damage on every hit equal to their main BAB.
Rangers could gain a class ablitiy that is similar to the Skirmish feat maybe?
http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=48453, Races of War, or .pdf. Every single thing here was addressed there.
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Every repost is a repost, etc.
What about changing the Con rules to +Con score to hit points, no Con bonus to each level? What effect do you think this would have? Make combat even more swingy, or make low levels slightly easier while making high levels more interesting? Would direct damage spells become appreciably more useful?
And yes I realize monster damage would need toning down a bit, but then it already does. *shrug*
What about changing the Con rules to +Con score to hit points, no Con bonus to each level? What effect do you think this would have? Make combat even more swingy, or make low levels slightly easier while making high levels more interesting? Would direct damage spells become appreciably more useful?
And yes I realize monster damage would need toning down a bit, but then it already does. *shrug*