Diplomacy Minigame

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Parthenon
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Diplomacy Minigame

Post by Parthenon »

I thought this up this morning and have been spending part of my day trying to make up rules on the spot for this. I have no idea if it would even work, but I thought I'd put it here and see how badly people rip it to shreds.

The basic idea is that instead of a single Diplomacy check to make the other person friendly, then roleplay with the DM to see whats reasonable, the diplomacy is split into two parties. Each party has a number of Demands, and a number of Offers to help the other accept their demands.

It goes like this:

The Diplomacy Minigame

Basic mechanics:

Two parties, each with a number of opposing demands. Each turn the demands get close to each other. When the demands of both parties are the same diplomacy is concluded. If a party fails to meet the demands later on, then everyone within the party takes a permanent -5 to all future diplomacy. This is affected by if they tried their hardest to meet the demands, as adjudicated by the DM.

However, each turn each party has a number of actions equal to the number in the party that they can use. The actions can be used to defend a demand to attempt to stop it getting closer to the other's demand, or they can attack one of the other's demands to get it closer to their demand.

They an also make offers which increase their checks, and use two actions at once to make a new demand, which requires two of the party using their actions at once.

This is all changed by the Rank of the parties: using the highest Rank of the party, or one lower than the Rank of the person they are representing. [In D&D level or Leadership score can be substituted for Rank] If one party has a higher rank than the other, they get +2 to all diplomacy checks within the diplomacy minigame.

If one party is directly in physical advantage to the other, by having a larger army directly available, or having the other party surrounded, then they also have a +2 to all checks.

If one party is the direct cause of the perpetrator of a crime against the other, for example one chieftain's village started the blood feud against the other, then that party takes a -2 on all checks.


Offers:
This can either be in gold, in which case for every 5% of the Wealth By Level of the opposing Rank, the party making the offer gets a +1 bonus to all checks, in promises to perform services, arbitrated by the DM, but a +1-+3 bonus, or in goods including magical items, which gives a bonus like gold based on the Wealth By Level.

Demands:
There are a number of different demand types, and each has a number of levels.
For example, a demand for money starts at the original demand, then reduces by 20% of the original demand each time to the point where there is no need to pay anything.

For every level lower than the maximum if making the demand or higher than the minimum when receiving the demand, the party gets a +2 to checks involving that demand.
For example, if one party demands unconditional surrender, they don't get a bonus, but if the party receiving this demand choose freedom but giving the other all their money, they get a +2 to checks involving that demand.

Here are the demand types so far. Some of them are only possible in some circumstances, as adjudicated by the DM.

Money: None, 20% of original, 40%, 60%, 80% Demand of money.
(This demand always starts at the maximum demand)
Capture: Complete freedom, freedom with giving up money, capture but keeping all equipment, capture with possibility of being ransomed, capture but no killing, unconditional surrender.
Blood money: No need to pay blood money, blood money only for the men, societal blood money, twice blood money, thrice blood money.
Territory: No change in territory, small change in territory, large change in territory, complete take over of territory.
(This demand has a +4 bonus on the defender's side, and a -4 penalty on the attackers side. It can only be demanded if the defender owns territory)
Service: No service, small service, difficult service, period in servitude, short period of slavery, permanent slavery.
Other demands are needed, but I can't think of any offhand.

Either party can accept one of the other's current demands at any time. This gives them a +3 to all checks the rest of diplomacy.



Start of "combat":

Initiative check: Everyone within the party makes a standard initiative check, and each party uses the highest check.
The party with the initiative makes 1-2 demands.
The party that lost the initiative makes up to 1 demand.

Then, they take it in turns to take actions:
Possible actions are:
  • Attack opposing demand. (1 action) This requires a diplomacy check DC 25. If successful, the enemies demand is brought one step closer to yours. This is unless it is protected by the opposing parties defence (see later).
    Defend own demand. (1 action)This requires a diplomacy check DC 20. If successful, the demand chosen is not changed one step closer to the opposing parties at the end of your turn. For every time past the first a demand is successfully defended against in a turn, a successful attack on it during the opposing parties next turn is negated.
    Make Demand (2 actions). You make a new demand.
    Make offer (1 action). You make an offer to buff your party's checks. The other party can choose to accept or not, and if the offer is accepted you gain the bonus to checks.
The diplomacy check for each action is done by the PC in control of that action. An Intimidate check can be done instead of the Diplomacy check.

At the end of your turn, all your demands are moved one step closer to the opposing parties demands.


Once all demands are equalled by the other party, diplomacy ends. However, either party can choose to retreat from diplomacy after the fifth turn, and in doing so lose any offers they have made and both parties still have to meet any demands that have met.

Benefits to this system:
It makes diplomacy more than just a single check.
It involves all the players.
It gives rules for varying situations so that decisions and so on are not solely the DM's choice.
It is simplified and abstract enough to be faster to play than just roleplaying a meeting.
It can be split up, so each turn could be a separate meeting, meaning that the players have more idea of how long the diplomacy takes.

Negatives to this system:
Possibly too complex.
Ignores the actual reasons and justifications behind the demands.
Means larger parties are a lot more likely to win the diplomacy.
Has the problem with huge diplomacy bonuses. However, this is reduced because any individual action isn't as important.
Only works with two parties. Three or more parties doesn't work.

So, how is this minigame? How can it be improved? Can it be imported straight into D&D, and if so how useful is it?
Last edited by Parthenon on Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Username17
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Post by Username17 »

The problem is that DCs of 20 or even 25 quickly become fate acompli for characters of even modest level, making the system essentially deterministic.

At the very least you're going to want to give people some kind of Diplomatic Armor Class, Hit Points, and meaningfully different "attack" options. As is, when you put two skilled diplomats n the room they both always succeed on all tests... leading to a deterministic and uninteresting conclusion.

-Username17
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JonSetanta
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Post by JonSetanta »

Hmmmm I'm thinking something more like the HP system has more merit than yet another opposed single check...
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traverse
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Re: Diplomacy Minigame

Post by traverse »

I also worked on a verbal combat system [only worked at low levels, ended up playing like weighted RPS (EDIT: Oops, moved it out of the Document wrapper)], maybe it can provide a few notes towards more than two groups and a possibility for a kind of HP. I never really considered verbal defense scores, since skills always work with opposed rolls.

I wouldn't really worry about the complexity of it. Unless it gets more complex than combat it's probably fine.
Last edited by traverse on Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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