Its a thug. Its a brute. Its a fighter!

[Bigode]

Since we want something where ogres or the like are meant to be challenging to the best if we want something representing Arthur's knights or those kind of fighters, instead of being something a reasonably well trained legion will pulverise (which is made up of people several steps below larger-than-life heroes individually), we kind of do need them as giants.

D&D does not represent that. It does not work for this.

WTF? The problem is solved by picking a giant, calling it an ogre, and limiting allowable classes.

Or possibly by using Conan or Iron Heroes, to pick games somewhat conversible to/from D&D, or GURPS otherwise.

And in case nobody told you, "might or not work" means "might work", which in turn means "go check instead of wasting bandwidth", possibly followed by "point specific issues".

[Elennsar]

WTF? The problem is solved by picking a giant, calling it an ogre, and limiting allowable classes.

No, it isn't. It still is set up based around the idea that you have magic items and so on (whether you have wizards blasting for "piddly damage" or breaking the game).

Or possibly by using Conan or Iron Heroes, to pick games somewhat conversible to/from D&D, or GURPS otherwise.

Possibly, possibly not - Iron Heroes is certainly NOT trying to limit the phlwhatever, however. Make it for the martial guys? Yes. Limit it so that we're not playing people who kill dragons with their bare hands? No.

And in case nobody told you, "might or not work" means "might work", which in turn means "go check instead of wasting bandwidth", possibly followed by "point specific issues".

And in case no one told you, if you're going to be a jerk instead of helpful, stop trolling.

I don't -know- the system well enough to weigh if it really represents what kind of feats Conan does. Nor do I particularly want to model Conan himself or his setting - if it works fine for the sort of setting where Conan and his kind are dominant (as well as/in addition to modeling that specific setting), awesome and wonderful.

But judging whether or not say, the Aesir are balanced with the bow-bearing allies of Aqulionia, is something I'm not familiar enough to say.

I do know that I don't like the fact that the Soldier is basically the D&D fighter (which is kind of bland even if sufficiently powerful) and I really don't like the Barbarian being able to use any weapon really well.

[Bigode]

No, it isn't. It still is set up based around the idea that you have magic items and so on (whether you have wizards blasting for "piddly damage" or breaking the game).

A) have you checked the miserly wealth you have by level 10? B) the non-magical monsters don't (often) require magical solutions, so you can assume characters only have items granting bonuses, then edit the bonuses in.

Possibly, possibly not - Iron Heroes is certainly NOT trying to limit the phlwhatever, however. Make it for the martial guys? Yes. Limit it so that we're not playing people who kill dragons with their bare hands? No.

A) "draconic power level" is a meaningless term in D&D. B) if you don't want defeating the flying scaly spellcasters to be accessible, cap maximum level. C) Iron Heroes characters don't challenge the boundaries of nonmagical warriors in any sense.

And in case no one told you, if you're going to be a jerk instead of helpful, stop trolling.

Since I have a memory at all, I know I've been told that multiple times, and it's still retarded. And unfortunately for both of us, you can't just edit "(no Bigodes allowed)" into the thread title.

I don't -know- the system well enough to weigh if it really represents what kind of feats Conan does. Nor do I particularly want to model Conan himself or his setting - if it works fine for the sort of setting where Conan and his kind are dominant (as well as/in addition to modeling that specific setting), awesome and wonderful.

Given that Conan has been repeatedly mentioned as source material ... start knowing it.

I do know that I don't like the fact that the Soldier is basically the D&D fighter (which is kind of bland even if sufficiently powerful) and I really don't like the Barbarian being able to use any weapon really well.

That's reason for minor adjustment, not shouting down the system. Duh.

[Elennsar]

A) have you checked the miserly wealth you have by level 10? B) the non-magical monsters don't (often) require magical solutions, so you can assume characters only have items granting bonuses, then edit the bonuses in.

A) Is still enough to have magic gear.

B) Or stop the idea that having a 95% chance vs. an encounter of your level is a normal fight.

A) "draconic power level" is a meaningless term in D&D. B) if you don't want defeating the flying scaly spellcasters to be accessible, cap maximum level. C) Iron Heroes characters don't challenge the boundaries of nonmagical warriors in any sense.

A) Killing adult dragons then.

B) Or have a system where max level -is- short of that point without making it a really low max.

C) Right, surrre.

Since I have a memory at all, I know I've been told that multiple times, and it's still retarded. And unfortunately for both of us, you can't just edit "(no Bigodes allowed)" into the thread title.

I'd prefer to have "No assholes who have nothing useful to say" in the thread title, but that probably wouldn't fit in the space available.

Would exclude you, however.

Given that Conan has been repeatedly mentioned as source material ... start knowing it.

Given that Conan is mentioned as an -example- of source material, no.

That's reason for minor adjustment, not shouting down the system. Duh.

That's reason for seeing what those who actually are interested in being helpful think, not demonstrating that people like you aren't among them.

So if you ARE interested in being helpful, BE helpful. If you are just being a troll, I'm going to repeat your posts to the fencebuilder as trolling until either he deals with you, shuts down the thread, or you stop trolling on your own.

[Bigode]

Is still enough to have magic gear.

I said: build the bonuses that'd be bought into the characters. As dispel magic won't be a normal tactic, it makes basically no difference that it's not items.

Or stop the idea that having a 95% chance vs. an encounter of your level is a normal fight.

Since I'm talking about using RAW and just addressing campaign setting issues, you're free to set the normal fight as whatever you want.

Or have a system where max level -is- short of that point without making it a really low max.

It's the setting max. It's the best that exists in the setting. From the point where you already have a PHB (I suppose you do), you aren't losing money in any sense if you just stipulate a setting to be capped. You don't need to eventually be able to write "level 20" in your sheet if what you want can be represented by the level 10 of a ruleset.

Right, surrre.

I'm taking it as "I didn't read it and think it's Weeaboo Fightan Magic" (which mostly isn't weeaboo or magic - neither is IH).

I'd prefer to have "No assholes who have nothing useful to say" in the thread title, but that probably wouldn't fit in the space available.

Would exclude you, however.

It wouldn't, even if I fit the criteria, because that rule ceased applying - trust me, it's quite painful to me too. Besides, on the bolded part, ask around - I fvcking dare you.

Given that Conan has been repeatedly mentioned as source material ... start knowing it.

Given that Conan is mentioned as an -example- of source material, no.

Let's parse that statement: "as the game merely includes Conan instead of being all about Conan, I refuse to read a Conan game, because I could whining instead".

That's reason for seeing what those who actually are interested in being helpful think, not demonstrating that people like you aren't among them.

So, your problem with the Conan barbarian's all of one class feature, and you demand a community project instead of swapping it? Yay.

So if you ARE interested in being helpful, BE helpful. If you are just being a troll, I'm going to repeat your posts to the fencebuilder as trolling until either he deals with you, shuts down the thread, or you stop trolling on your own.

Heh, shutting down the thread's a possibility.

[Elennsar]

I'm taking it as "I didn't read it and think it's Weeaboo Fightan Magic" (which mostly isn't weeaboo or magic - neither is IH).

Nothing in IH that I am aware of suggests a significantly lower power level than standard D&D (Standard, not optimized).

It wouldn't, even if I fit the criteria, because that rule ceased applying - trust me, it's quite painful to me too. Besides, on the bolded part, ask around - I fvcking dare you.

\

I dare you to actually contribute to this thread instead of mocking and insulting.

Let's parse that statement: "as the game merely includes Conan instead of being all about Conan, I refuse to read a Conan game, because I could whining instead".

False. "as the game is refering to Conan as an example of the -kind- of character we're thinking of rather than exactly what we want to model, I refuse to spend 30 bucks buying the books (Howard's, not the RPG - which I own a copy of the unrevised edition of already) unless this does become about that specific setting."

So, your problem with the Conan barbarian's all of one class feature, and you demand a community project instead of swapping it? Yay.

No, my problem with the Conan barbarian is all of several class features, and I would like a project with others (whether most of the community or just three or four people) to work with that and the other classes.

I don't know the system well enough to judge any balance issues or lack of it, and I would like the help of those who are interested in this if it is worth doing to work on sorting out what to do.

Heh, shutting down the thread's a possibility.

Do you just get your jollies from being a dick, or do you actually have something to add that might actually ASSIST here?

Because you're really acting like "Since it isn't specifically prohibited to be an asshole, I'm going to be an asshole for all its worth."

[Bigode]

Nothing in IH that I am aware of suggests a significantly lower power level than standard D&D (Standard, not optimized).

I'm talking about how non-magical the characters feel, not power level. Limiting power levels' achieved by limiting levels - which I believe's been said multiple times.

I dare you to actually contribute to this thread instead of mocking and insulting.

I did already - there's even agreement from others.

False. "as the game is refering to Conan as an example of the -kind- of character we're thinking of rather than exactly what we want to model, I refuse to spend 30 bucks buying the books (Howard's, not the RPG - which I own a copy of the unrevised edition of already) unless this does become about that specific setting."

Barring English fail, you tell me you don't have the novels but do have the ruleset. Who cares about the former?

No, my problem with the Conan barbarian is all of several class features, and I would like a project with others (whether most of the community or just three or four people) to work with that and the other classes.

So you want help in houseruling Conan d20? Congratulations, you've a fvcking scope defined now! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know the system well enough to judge any balance issues or lack of it, and I would like the help of those who are interested in this if it is worth doing to work on sorting out what to do.

Assuming the above, go read it and point specific issues.

Do you just get your jollies from being a dick, or do you actually have something to add that might actually ASSIST here?

Because you're really acting like "Since it isn't specifically prohibited to be an asshole, I'm going to be an asshole for all its worth."

"All its worth"? For starters, I could avoid being helpful if I wanted.

[Elennsar]

I'm talking about how non-magical the characters feel, not power level. Limiting power levels' achieved by limiting levels - which I believe's been said multiple times.

And by limiting the power -of- a given level.

I did already - there's even agreement from others.

In the most limited and useless manner possible, yes.

Barring English fail, you tell me you don't have the novels but do have the ruleset. Who cares about the former?

If we wanted to model Conan's setting in particular, the "we" in question.

So you want help in houseruling Conan d20? Congratulations, you've a fvcking scope defined now! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What I want is to work on something with people who are interested in a low phlwhatever and if the Conan d20 system works for that kind of thing, excellent.

Assuming the above, go read it and point specific issues.

Assuming the above, recognize I have read and that I don't know how useful "+X on total defense" IS or I wouldn't be -asking- about how well the abilities balance.

"All its worth"? For starters, I could avoid being helpful if I wanted.

There would be no difference between you "not being helpful" and your last post.


To all reading this:
This is not "my project". If you don't want to work on a group project about this, say so. If you do want to work on a group project, then stop insisting I make the decisions.

[ckafrica]

Oh, this is a group project, sweet!!! I just thought this was another of E-troll's inane rants.

Group vote all who want E-troll to kindly stop participating in the group project please make your opinion known.

My decision is for him to leave, obviously.

[Elennsar]

If you don't care for this, ignore it.

Very simple.

If you want to just be a troll, please continue doing what you're doing.

[ckafrica]

No you miss understand, I was going to simply leave this thread alone because communicating with you in even the most interesting of topics is about as much fun getting my dick caught in a blender. I actually am reasonably interested in this topic and would consider contributing assuming you weren't.

I assumed this was another of brainless and endless diatribes against anything reasonable in another of your pathetic attempts to get people to interact with you as it is pretty obvious this level interaction (where nearly every comment made in your direction is dripping with complete and utter contempt of everything you say) is the closest thing to friendship you can manage to achieve.

But you just said you meant for this to be a group project and you want the rest of us to make some decisions. Sure I'm game then.
As a member of the group I'm deciding I don't want your imput on this topic anymore and I'm calling on other members of the group to decide whether they want you to continue in the group dicussion as well.

I sincerely feel that any continued contribution by you is counter productive to grander goal and so I feel the discussion would be better served without your presence.

Who's with me?

[Roy]

Aye aye mother fucka! I'm with ya!

[Username17]

Oh, this is a group project, sweet!

Is it? Well in that case, I would suggest that if you wanted to do Conanesqueries, that you dump the d20 system entirely and go for a dcepool system like WoD or Warp Cult. The fact of the matter is that magicians in Conan's universe are supposed to be scary despite the fact that you can just hit them with a bastard sword and have them fall over stone cold dead. That really works better with static wound levels like Warp Cult or closely variable like WoD.


A major problem is that those games don't really have a melee combat system in place, because they are focused on shooting fools rather than stabbing them in the face. So you'd have to graft one on. There are plenty to choose from however.

-Username17

[violence in the media]

To all reading this:
This is not "my project". If you don't want to work on a group project about this, say so. If you do want to work on a group project, then stop insisting I make the decisions.

Bullshit. You don't get to claim this is a group project and then act like a director where you get to evaluate the usefulness and contributions of each person involved.

You especially don't get to call this a group project and then whine when the group tells you to GTFO, and further refuse to do so.

I cast my vote that this would be awesome without Elennsar.

[Elennsar]

I do, however, get to say that it is something that I would like to work on, and that I don't appreciate people being insulting jerks and/or not actually contributing anything to the project and yet posting in this thread.

Big difference.

So if you want a project where it is "Let's mock Elennsar because we're incapable of actually respecting the opinion of anyone who doesn't agree with us.", tough. That does nothing whatsoever other than satisfy your desire to mock and insult.

[Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp]

A Lurker agrees with you Elennsar 8)

[Psychic Robot]

So what's the goal of this project? Making not-flashy fighters that function?

[Elennsar]

Yes - with mages being at a level where they can do things without invalidating that kind of fighter.

Since figuring out what exactly fighters (and such) are requires a setting, it would probably be best at this point to either create or pick one.

[Psychic Robot]

My vote goes for making them bears.

[fbmf]

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]

Once again, this thread is going no where.

To the Community: Rounding up an e-posse to drive Elenssar out of town is not going to work. Saying that a discussion he started is better served without him is rude and uncalled for. I can not wrap my mind around why people who make a habit of telling El what a jerk off he is on a regular basis don't simply have him on IGNORE.

To Elenssar: By the same token, I do not understand why you hang around with people who (A) don't like you, and (B) tell you so at the top of their lungs constantly. As a teacher, I am all for rescuing the under dog from the playground bullies, but when said underdog keeps going over to the part of the playground where the bullies hang out I find it increasingly harder to be sympathetic.

[/TGBFS]