Hilarious 4e Anti-Immersion

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:04 pm

SunTzuWarmaster wrote:Hey! Unconscious? I still have a healing surge and can roll a natural 20 to jump up to my feet and get nibbled on lightly for several more rounds!

Fixed.

MartinHarper · Post by **MartinHarper** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:12 pm

SunTzuWarmaster wrote:Hey! Unconscious? I still have a healing surge and can roll a natural 20 to jump up to my feet and get devoured for several more rounds!

As it happens, unconscious characters don't make death saving throws, and they still take ongoing damage from being devoured. But really, I don't care that the DM can make the Tarrasque do non-lethal digestion damage, because the DM can give the Tarrasque eye lasers and rocket feet.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:23 pm

Why is the Tarrasque such a goddamn wuss in 4E?

A lone dwarven Battlerager Fighter in +6 masterwork plate can pop a Boundless Endurance or Unyielding Avalanche and laugh in the tarrasque's fat fucking face as he wails on it all day long.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:28 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Why is the Tarrasque such a goddamn wuss in 4E?

A lone dwarven Battlerager Fighter in +6 masterwork plate can pop a Boundless Endurance or Unyielding Avalanche and laugh in the tarrasque's fat fucking face as he wails on it all day long.

Everything is. Padded Sumo for the loss.

Everything has also gotten smaller, so as to better fit into closets. It used to take up at least 10k square feet on the battle map, along with the biggest dragons. 3.5 shrunk it to taking up 64 squares on the map... Pretty sure 4.Fail shrunk it more.

Torko · Post by **Torko** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:32 pm

A cyclops gets a bonus to ranged attacks because of its single eye.

4th ed: This is a game. Games are fun. Thinking is not fun. Do not think. Obey. Consume.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:42 pm

Evil Eye.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:28 pm

All four of them.

RandomCasualty2 · Post by **RandomCasualty2** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:49 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Why is the Tarrasque such a goddamn wuss in 4E?

A lone dwarven Battlerager Fighter in +6 masterwork plate can pop a Boundless Endurance or Unyielding Avalanche and laugh in the tarrasque's fat fucking face as he wails on it all day long.

Well battleragers are pretty much crazy broken. In a game of hit point attrition, they have ridiculously high endurance by default and to make matters worse they deal fighter damage.

Pretty much nothing beats a battlerager except for a line of artillery monsters.

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:11 pm

Doom314 wrote:You can also knock enemies unconscious with a fireball, lightning, or even acid attack in DnD4.0.

Actually. no. Generally speaking all enemies die at 0.
Only PCs are special. The DM has to decide to give NPCs the Plot-Critical (unkillable) flag to let the PCs knock enemies unconscious.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:32 pm

Voss wrote:
Doom314 wrote:You can also knock enemies unconscious with a fireball, lightning, or even acid attack in DnD4.0.
Actually. no. Generally speaking all enemies die at 0.
Only PCs are special. The DM has to decide to give NPCs the Plot-Critical (unkillable) flag to let the PCs knock enemies unconscious.

No, he's right.

4.0 PHB, 295 wrote:When you reduce a creature to 0 hit points or fewer, you can choose to knock it unconscious rather than kill it. Until it regains hit points, the creature is unconscious but not dying. Any healing makes the creature conscious. If the creature doesn’t receive any healing, it is restored to 1 hit point and becomes conscious after a short rest.

Also, this happens to any enemy or plot-important NPC with the [unkillable] tag. Nonlethal rocks fall, everyone is unconscious.

-Username17

Amra · Post by **Amra** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:40 pm

But you've got to do lethal damage up until that point because there's no nonlethal damage. Having reduced him to ragged, bloody shreds over the course of many boring rounds, you can then choose to knock him out rather than kill him by conjuring a ball of sulphuric acid into his face.

Neat.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:23 pm

Amra wrote:But you've got to do lethal damage up until that point because there's no nonlethal damage. Having reduced him to ragged, bloody shreds over the course of many boring rounds, you can then choose to knock him out rather than kill him by conjuring a ball of sulphuric acid into his face.

Neat.

Nonlethal rocks fall, everyone is unconscious.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:23 pm

Noooo! Guys, guys, guys! Hitpoints totally aren't ACTUAL wounds. The acid arrow that burns him initially and continues burning him for a few rounds thereafter? It's actually just pain, not real damage. Like, if you poured vinegar on a cut? That's 3d6 damage right there.

Fuchs · Post by **Fuchs** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:24 pm

But he's not really hurt until he dies. If you choose not to kill him he's not really hurt, just banged up - nothing a bit of rest (5 minutes and a healing surge or two!) can't cure fully.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:24 pm

Psychic Robot wrote:Noooo! Guys, guys, guys! Hitpoints totally aren't ACTUAL wounds. The acid arrow that burns him initially and continues burning him for a few rounds thereafter? It's actually just pain, not real damage. Like, if you poured vinegar on a cut? That's 3d6 damage right there.

Because swinging a poisoned sword at someone totally auto magically puts the poison in the wound you didn't make... because they couldn't animate hacking up sprites.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:26 pm

The poison's damage is actually you resisting the poison and the fatigue your body takes from it.

/facepalm

Fuchs · Post by **Fuchs** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:36 pm

Until you die from it - then all the damage you took is actual damage. Same for sword blows, claw strikes, blunt trauma to the head, fire and cold damage.

Schrodinger's wounds - until you die you can't know how hurt you are. You can't even know if it's just fatigue (which a healing surge and 5 minutes of rest will cure) or actual damage, which kills you.

Amra · Post by **Amra** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:25 pm

Woo-hoo! The Copenhagen Interpretation of "getting the shit kicked out of you". Bohr would have thrown a fit.

Arikail · Post by **Arikail** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:40 am

I think my favorite is the ritual books and scrolls, and the fact that if you make them, you can only sell them for half the price you made them for. But if an NPC makes them, (using theoretically the exact same procedures you did, and the same price), they can charge you full price for them. So I want my class to be Merchant, and my class ability is "May sell items at full price to anyone without the Merchant class."

MartinHarper · Post by **MartinHarper** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:51 am

In my 4e economy, merchants have the ability to make ritual books and scrolls for half the material costs of a PC, but can only do so once/week, and tend to do so on demand rather than in advance. This mostly explains why they buy for "half price" and sell for "full price", and why robbing a merchant doesn't net you thousands of unsold ritual books and scrolls.

Arikail · Post by **Arikail** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:30 pm

Nice way of doing things. I was just pointing out some of the un-immersive ness of 4E as I see it. It's basically a way for the designers to say "You are adventurers, go out and kill things, don't sit around and make them" with the unspoken addendum that (because if you could make them for cheaper and sell them, then that would throw off our cash-by-level calculations). I sort of understand why they did it (as this is a game of Dungeons and Dragons, not Merchants and Tradeships), but it does kill my immersion, especially when I read the novels where the hero makes a living for a time plying a trade he learned early on so he can live.

And sorry, didn't realize I was performing thread necromancy until a day after I made the post. Just got onto the boards. Oops.

TarkisFlux · Post by **TarkisFlux** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:53 pm

Arikail wrote:And sorry, didn't realize I was performing thread necromancy until a day after I made the post. Just got onto the boards. Oops.

Don't worry about it, no one here cares. Several of us even prefer that you do it rather than open up a new thread on an old topic.

Also, welcome and stuff.

CapnTthePirateG · Post by **CapnTthePirateG** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:09 am

I'd just like to point out that my PC is so cool! He's a necromancer! Sure his skeleton has the same stats as a bear, but it's not a bear! It's an undead!

The use of bows is a COMPLETE COINCIDENCE. This isn't a ranger, it's a necromancer! You can tell, because I erased 'ranger' from the sheet and put 'necromancer!'

The above is an actual 4.Fail suggestion I saw on the WoTC boards.

koz · Post by **koz** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:22 am

CapnTthePirateG wrote:I'd just like to point out that my PC is so cool! He's a necromancer! Sure his skeleton has the same stats as a bear, but it's not a bear! It's an undead!

The use of bows is a COMPLETE COINCIDENCE. This isn't a ranger, it's a necromancer! You can tell, because I erased 'ranger' from the sheet and put 'necromancer!'

The above is an actual 4.Fail suggestion I saw on the WoTC boards.

Welcome, welcome. You are in good company.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:05 am

We totally love when old threads get new stuff. New is always better than retreads.

Threads become older because we ran out of things to talk about, then forgot about them... It doesn't mean they might not be relevant later, be added to again, and we love linking to old threads (if we can find them.)

-Crissa