The Gaming Den

I spoke with the DM today actually.

Hold Person would have been a great idea, since the fighter only has a will save of +1.

Also, the paladin made, in the DM's opinion, several tactically questionable actions. Mainly, running off when I managed to disarm him with color spray. Had tha paladin just grabbed the +2 adamantine anarchic keen (!) axe and just played keep-away, we probably would have pulled a win out, since said fighter would just be relying on unarmed strikes.

However, that would have been moot had I been capable of throwing out charm person on round 1 when the paladin and rogue were in melee with it, then CdG it. It doesn't matter if it makes a save every round if it dies before it gets to make one.

I probably should have just stayed straight cleric.

Count_Arioch_the_28th at [unixtime wrote:1166062366[/unixtime]]I spoke with the DM today actually.

Hold Person would have been a great idea, since the fighter only has a will save of +1.

Also, the paladin made, in the DM's opinion, several tactically questionable actions. Mainly, running off when I managed to disarm him with color spray. Had tha paladin just grabbed the +2 adamantine anarchic keen (!) axe and just played keep-away, we probably would have pulled a win out, since said fighter would just be relying on unarmed strikes.

That's what I would have figured. It sounds like some poor decisions were made in hindsight, and that's typical when players go through Gamers Lament.

However, that would have been moot had I been capable of throwing out charm person on round 1 when the paladin and rogue were in melee with it, then CdG it. It doesn't matter if it makes a save every round if it dies before it gets to make one.

I probably should have just stayed straight cleric.

I'm thinking that you meant to say Hold Person instead of Charm Person, but Charm Person would have been excellent in this situation as well. Figuring that it is a 1st level wizard spell, I'm figuring that your MyTH should have qualified for that as well.

That is the point. Yeah, Hold Person would work for this specific situation. However:

1) So would a number of other spells that your MyTH could have had and,

2) Just because your character didn't have Hold Person doesn't mean he was the death of your group. It sounds like some of the other players contributed, either by poor decisions or bad luck.

Like I sad, you're going through a case of Gamer's Lament, and we all experience it after an encounter - especially after a TPK. Trying to attribute it all to the fact that you played a MyTH instead of a cleric I still think is a little strong, especially after hearing what happened with the other players.

edit: And finally, since you were talking with your current DM, I'm making the assumption that you haven't been kicked out of your group. However, let me know if that assumption is off-base.

edit #2: If you don't feel uncomfortable asking the other two players, ask them:

a) Do they resent the fact that you played a MyTH?
b) Do they thick that was the reason that lead to the TPK?
c) Would they ever have reservations with you ever playing a MyTH again?

Honestly, these questions are probably good just to ask to make sure the entire gaming group is on the same page. Of course, it's your call.

Daaaamn, this is even worse than blaming the proto-MyTheurge for not winning the entire frickin fight on his own. He did win the fight on his own and the rest of the party decided not to cash their signed check.

I can't count the number of times I've been in a group that was getting the crap beaten out of it by a big bad warrior, and then things became easy once we put our efforts into depriving him of his weapon.

If you want to tempt fate with a tiny party, then you have to have decent tactics. Sounds like the MyTheurge owned his role as a debuffer, and the rest of the party failed to follow through.

In a 3 person party like that, I don't think having a better character is the solution. All that winds up doing apparently is that you are relied upon to win encounters all on your own. That being the case, the other guys are just your lackeys. Probably a better solution is having the DM set encounters a little lighter (like not giving equal strength opposition with equipment costing over 50k gp around level 5), since it seems like that's required to have everyone contribute.

If I am the only meaningful contributor to a combat, I'm sure not gonna be kicking myself for the party not being equal to the challenge.

On the topic of bad characters, I had to share. From the Wotc boards...

WoTC guy wrote:
For concept reasons, and the best way to patch the issue that going MT (mystic theurge) means the character basically loses the ability to wear armour ...

Monk 2/Wiz 3/Cler 3/MT x

Actually worked out very well. The AC bonus helped initially, before bracers and other such AC enhancements were available. The Monk unarmed also rocked, the couple of times it came into play

That's how you fix your mystic theurge. Throw a couple levels of monk on there.

That's how you fix your Mystic Theurge in the same way you fix a cat.

A Lösung to end all Lösungs, if you will.

Well, geepers, at least they won't die while they futz around being useless...

-Crissa