Cheese Updates, 3.5

[User3]

CR should be 4.

[Thoth_Amon]

Added Paladin Mount abilities to the Half Dragon/Blink Dog Mount. Note these are reduced as the 10 levels of Paladins Mount are reduced for taking the advanced Mount as a cohort.

Half Blink Dog/Half Topaz Dragon (Anarch Paladin Mount)

Medium Dragon
Hit Dice: 4d12+2d10 (48 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 24 (+3 Dex, +11 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+9
Attack: Bite +9 melee (1d6+4)
Full Attack: Bite +9 melee (1d6+4) and 2 Claws +6 (1d4+2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Blink, darkvision 60 ft., dimension door, low-light vision, scent, Immunity to Sleep, Paralysis, and Cold, Breath Weapon
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +10, Will +4
Abilities: Str 19, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 13
Skills: Hide +3, Listen +6, Sense Motive +3, Spot +10, Survival +4
Feats: Iron Will, Run, Track, Fleet of Foot
Environment: Temperate plains
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (7–16)
Challenge Rating: 5
Treasure: None
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Advancement: 5–7 HD (Medium); 8–12 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: +5 (cohort)

The Half Blink Dog/Half Topaz Dragon is an intelligent draconic canine that has a limited teleportation ability.
The Half Blink Dog/Half Topaz Dragon have their own language, a mixture of barks, yaps, whines, and growls that can transmit complex information.

COMBAT
Blink (Su): A Half Blink Dog/Half Topaz Dragon can use blink as the spell (caster level 8th), and can evoke or end the effect as a free action.
Breath Weapon (Su): The breath weapon is a 30 foot cone of dehydration, usable once per day and allows a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 half-dragon's racial HD + half-dragon's Constitution modifier) for half damage. DC 13
Darkvision (Ex): The Half Blink Dog/Half Topaz Dragon has darkvision to a 60-foot range.
Dimension Door (Su): A Half Blink Dog/Half Topaz Dragon can teleport, as dimension door (caster level 8th), once per round as a free action. The ability affects only the blink dog, which never appears within a solid object and can act immediately after teleporting.
Immunities (Ex): The Half Blink Dog/Half Topaz Dragon is immune to sleep, paralysis,and cold effects.
Low-Light Vision (Ex):The Half Blink Dog/Half Topaz Dragon has low-light vision.

Paladin Mount Abilities (at 10th, reduced for a cohort mount):
Bonus HD: Two extra ten-sided (d10) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Extra Hit Dice improve the mount’s base attack and base save bonuses. A special mount’s base attack bonus is equal to that of a cleric of a level equal to the mount’s HD. A mount has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD). The mount gains additional skill points or feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice.
Natural Armor Adj.: The number on the table is an improvement to the mount’s existing natural armor bonus. (+4)
Str Adj.: Add this figure to the mount’s Strength score. (+1)
Int: The mount’s Intelligence score. (Ignored as the Base Creatures is higher)
Empathic Link (Su): The paladin has an empathic link with her mount out to a distance of up to 1 mile. The paladin cannot see through the mount’s eyes, but they can communicate empathically. Note that even intelligent mounts see the world differently from humans, so misunderstandings are always possible.
Because of this empathic link, the paladin has the same connection to an item or place that her mount does, just as with a master and his familiar (see Familiars).
Improved Evasion (Ex): When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, a mount takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage if the saving throw fails.
Share Spells: At the paladin’s option, she may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) she casts on herself also affect her mount. The mount must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the mount if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the mount again even if it returns to the paladin before the duration expires. Additionally, the paladin may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her mount (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A paladin and her mount can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the mount’s type (magical beast).
Share Saving Throws: For each of its saving throws, the mount uses its own base save bonus or the paladin’s, whichever is higher. The mount applies its own ability modifiers to saves, and it doesn’t share any other bonuses on saves that the master might have.

EDIT changed Dash to Fleet of Foot and reduced move rate.

[User3]

If he takes Fleet of Foot instead of Dash he could then turn during your spirited charges. Might be more useful.

[Thoth_Amon]

True and I did think of that, but could not remember the name of the damn feat and did not want to look stupid posting sommething close but wrong!! ("Turn the Corner?") Thanks! TA

[Username17]

Note these are reduced as the 10 levels of Paladins Mount are reduced for taking the advanced Mount as a cohort.

Not if it is generated from Leadership.

However, note that if it is generated from Leadership (and it will have to be because it is type Dragon), it will not become available until you hit class level 11.

4 base hit dice, Cohort Level Adjustment of +5, and you have to exceed that by 2. Once that's done, however, you'll slap down all of your 11th level Mount Bonuses on it in a big pile.

-Username17

[Thoth_Amon]

I am thinking of breaking your cardinal rule Frank....

Levels 6-8 of Halfling Outrider (HO)
+3 BAB
+1 AC
+1 Fort
+2 Reflex
+1 Will
3d8 HP
6 SP
Evasion
Full Mounted Attack
3 more levels of Mount Advancement

Levels 8-10 Devoted Defender (DD) (Squeezed out of the build)
+3 BAB
+1 AC
+2 Fort
+2 Reflex
+1 Will
3d12 HP
6 SP
Defensive Strike +2
Deflect Attack +1

Removing like bonuses:

DD has:
+1 Fort
+6 HP
Defensive Strike +2
Deflect Attack +1
VS
HO Has:
Evasion (Rider and Mount!)
Full Mounted Attack
3 more levels of Mount Advancement
+2 HD, (including a Feat HD so Dash), +2 NAC, +1 STR

I really like Evasion, and Full Mounted Attack has to be better than a point of defensive strike. The 6 HP bother me a little...But the mount bonuses are Rocktastic!!

What do you all think?

TA

[Thoth_Amon]

BTW. Page 81 of the Arms and Equipment Guide explicitly kabashes the ability to blink or dimension door with your mount.

It does say if you get a Ring of Blinking it synchronizes with your mount, and as such all of your blinking tricks can work as your mount can activate and deactivate the blinking as a free action. I don't think the Dimension Door thing can be worked unless your DM allows you to get a Cloak of the Mountebank and work the same deal.

TA

[Thoth_Amon]

I see the Paladin Mount gets Improved Evasion. SO nix the utility of that for the mount (Which makes it slightly lame to offer the 6th level Halfling Outrider, their mount already has it.)

Hmmm.

Not quite as slanted as I thought...

TA

[Desdan_Mervolam]

Actually an Equine Golem can indeed run, not only due to lack of a "(Can't Run)" tag in it's stat area, but also because of specific mention in the creature's stats. "They creak quietly as they walk but can gallop tirelessly, moving at full run for an entire day"(A&EG. pg 87). They also mention that Equine Golems are powered by Air Elementals, since earth elementals are "Too plodding" to animate a swift mount.

Sorry about the wait, I left my A&EG at home today and wanted to consult it before I stated that Equine Golems can run.

-Desdan

[Username17]

Evasion also only works if you are wearing light or no armor - which is highly counter-synergistic with your ability to wear medium and heavy armor without reducing your speed while mounted.

Essentially, in those 3 levels you get a grand total of two class features: Full Mounted Attack and a +3 Ride Bonus. Full Mounted Attack is really small, as it is in most ways just like getting your charge bonus damage except that it can't be used with Leap From the Saddle without leaving you on the ground at the end. You don't have a move action left over to remount when you use it and it doesn't do more damage than simply charging would. The +3 Ride Bonus is neat, but I don't think you need it, since you are already looking at 13+ ranks of Ride, a +5 bonus, your dex bonus, presumably a +2 bonus from Handle Animal Synergy.

However, Devoted Defender isn't very impressive at that point either. A competence bonus to your deflect attack save is not meaningful - that ability is going to almost never fail (it's a Reflex Save DC 20, and you are a multiclassed Halfling with Divine Grace). A +1 bonus to your defensive strike attacks is also highly unimpressive. I suggest bugging out of Devoted Defender after three levels. Once you have Harm's Way, Deflect Attack, and Defensive Strike, the class doesn't even give you Weapon Focus on any level after that.

Expiration dates:

Halfling Outrider: 5
Devoted Defender: 3

So at level 14 you are looking at not getting good returns from either of those classes, so it's time to look elsewhere.

Anarch. I assume that you don't get any class features for level 6 of Anarch excpet a spell, neh? Well, it's level 6, so you get +1 BAB, +1 to each save, a d10 hit points, and advance your mount. That's not bad. I wouldn't take another level of it, but it's not bad.

Cavalier. Is it good? Nope. But consider: you are looking at taking classes that don't do anything, so this is not a bad option. Level 1 gets you +2 to two saves, a d10 hit points, +1 to hit with a lance while mounted, and mysteriously gives you a +1 bonus to knowledge: Nobility. The Cavalier bonus to ride is smaller than the Outrider bonus and does not stack - although you may be able to con your DM into adding them into a single bonus. That's not great, but it's not terrible, and it's not like you are actually giving up anything to meet the prereqs. The other levels of the class are mung.

Which brings us to....

Templar You just took two levels, which means that you can take a feat. Take Endurance instead of Power Attack. That's a kick in the crotch. But at 16th level you can take Templar, making your saves even more absurdly stupendous. At level 19 you'll get a bonus feat, and sing and dance.

or

Berserk. It requires you to be using Deities and Demigods - a very dangerous book to bring into the game. But it's practically a Core Class, it's so easy to qualify for. Unfortunately, the class is also really short - in that it only has three levels worth of abilities.

or

Occult Slayer. This requires you to invest in the Improved Initiative feat, see Endurance above. The class is also two levels long. But Spell Turning as a free action is pretty cool - and remember that charges while mounted are done with the attack action, so that vicious strike stacks with spirited charge (and Leap from the Saddle) - consider that spell disrupted.

or

Ronin Requires EWP: Bastard Sword. Weird, and the backstory requirements may be extremely difficult to achieve. The class is also only 2 levels long. However, I don't think that I can overstate the effectiveness of adding your BAB to your damage before your charge multipliers without suffering a penalty to hit.

or whatever.

However, you might be overthinking this. At 6th level you can just call a Warbeast Dire Hawk, it's an animal, so it's not even one of those "run it past your DM" things, it's just legit. It flies at 90 ft. with average manuverability and has a strength of 15. Or if manuverability is more important than speed - a Desmodu Hunting Bat will do fine. If you want speed and manuverability and are willing to drop mount attacks - a Warbeast Anarch Giant Bee can be called at level 5 (and has no attacks at all). If you want to do a lot of damage, a Ferocious Blood Hawk can do flyby attacks with the wounding quality - fire and forget weapons are better when you fly. If you don't mind dying of shame - the Verlen (fiend folio) is effective both in the water and in the air - and its charge abilities make it especially good as a mount, I don't know how it has that good of a land speed though, so prepare for the shame if you go this route. If you really want weird and high manuverability - you can call an Aoa Droplet at 6th level.

Vorr are Chaotic evil and can take creatures with them when they shadow jump. It also has the trip ability and sneak attack. Not usually an option for Paladins - but in your case can work quite well.

Note that if you still are wedded to the concept of a Blink Dog, that everything the A&EG says about special mounts does not apply in 3.5.

-Username17

[Username17]

Sorry about the wait, I left my A&EG at home today and wanted to consult it before I stated that Equine Golems can run.

In 3rd edition they could.

In 3.5 nothing with no Con can run. Not even Ghouls and Vampires. If it's a Construct or Undead, it can't run in 3.5 rules.

Stupid, but true.

-Username17

[Desdan_Mervolam]

Really? I coulda swore the A&EG was supposed to be com patable with 3.5. You're right, that IS stupid.

-Desdan

[Thoth_Amon]

Crap. Good points. I like the D12 and sweet stacking AC bonuses of Devoted Defender. I think the mount improvements I can make for the 6th level of Outrider or Anarch are highly desireable (The 11th level of paladin improvements to the mount are certainly worth having.)

I agree about the Cavalier level, but the Lawful Alignment restriction prohibits it. Even though my DM did allow me to take it, I decided to try to stick to a legit build (well, as legit as you can be with a class taken out of a dragon magazine at any rate.) So maybe another level of Anarch. Hey, look at me turning minor constructs and I get to smite even more Law. (I think.)

Then the 4 levels of Templar.

And then Planar Champ or an 8th level of Anarch depending on what they provide...

Having a Ring of Blinking syncing with a blink dog is highly advantageous as you don't have to sweat your miss chance, but are always blinking when you want to be. I know what you mean about A&EG, but unless you have the location of the skip post where he describes SU effects as those that can be shared, I am stuck with the closest thing to an official statement of how it works (Which unfortunately is A&EG and the Blink dog description in 3.5 where it says it only works for the blink dog).

A flying Mount is cool, but the point of being the small cavalier is the potential to use the mount effectively in most adventuring situations (City, Dungeon, thick forest, etc.) Sure I don;t get aquatic, but the landbound mount has allot going for it.

TA

[fbmf]

If you don't have a bonded mount, can your Leadership -gained cohort still be a mount? If so, how does your "cohort" advance?

For our purposes, assume a Worg.

Game On,
fbmf

[Thoth_Amon]

Divine Champion from FRCS is the way to finish up...

Code: Select all

[br]Lvl	Class	BAB	Fort	Reflex	Will	Class Abilities and Character Feats*[br]1	Anarch 1+1	+0	+2	+0	Chaos Aura, Detect Law, Smite Law (1/day), [br]						Mounted Combat*, Ride By Attack*[br]2	Anarch 2+2	+0	+3	+0	Divine Grace, Destructive Strike[br]3	Anarch 3+3	+1	+3	+1	Aura of Courage, Slippery Mind, [br]						Mounted Archery*[br]4	Anarch 4+4	+1	+4	+1	Turn Construct, Spells[br]5	Anarch 5+5	+1	+4	+1	Smite Law 2/day, Special Mount[br]6	HO 1	+6	+1	+6	+1	Alertness, Mount, Ride Bonus, AC +1, [br]						Weapon Focus (Lance)*[br]7	HO  2	+7	+1	+7	+1	Defensive Riding[br]8	HO  3	+8	+2	+7	+2	Unbroken Charge, AC +2[br]9	HO  4	+9	+2	+8	+2	Stand on Mount, Leadership*[br]10	HO  5	+10	+2	+8	+2	Leap from the Saddle, AC +3[br]11	DDf 1	+11	+4	+10	+2	Harms Way, AC +4[br]12	DDf 2	+12	+5	+11	+2	Defensive Strike, Spirited Charge*[br]13	DDf 3	+13	+5	+11	+3	Deflect Attack +1, AC +5[br]14	Anarch 6+14	+6	+12	+4	[br]15	DChmp 1	+15	+8	+14	+4	Lay on Hands, Endurance*[br]16	Tmplr 1	+16	+10	+14	+6	Mettle, Spells, Weapon Specialization (Lance)[br]17	DChmp 2	+17	+11	+15	+6	Sacred Defense +1, Power Attack[br]18	DChmp 3	+18	+11	+15	+7	Smite Infidel, Improved Critical Lance*[br]19	DChmp 4	+19	+12	+16	+8	Sacred Defense +2, Improved Initiative[br]20	DChmp 5	+20	+12	+16	+8	Divine Wrath[br]

[Username17]

If you don't have a bonded mount, can your Leadership -gained cohort still be a mount?

Sure. That's why many things like Unicorns have a Level Adjustment, after all.

If so, how does your "cohort" advance?

They start getting class levels. No, I'm not even making that up. Bonded Mount cohorts do the same thing and then layer the additional hit dice on top of that.

For our purposes, assume a Worg.

It starts at level 5 (despite only being a CR 2 monster with no non-combat abilities). Then, as your level goes above and beyond 7th, the Worg starts getting class levels.

Obvious choice would be Fighter, Barbarian, or Monk. Thereafter it wants to progress into a triptastic build of some kind.

-Username17

[fbmf]

Obvious choice would be Fighter, Barbarian, or Monk. Thereafter it wants to progress into a triptastic build of some kind.

-Username17

[Silly question] Can you point me towards a good triptastic build for a large wolf?[/Silly Question]

Game On,
fbmf

[Username17]

How many levels are you working with?

Your biggest demand is Improved Trip, as that is an unlimited attack combo with the Worg's Trip ability. That's hard to get because the Worg has a -4 Int Penalty - but since it also has elite stats and full equipment for a 5th+ level character - it's not impossible.

For your stat arrangement, the only thing you care about is Strength and Intelligence. As a Wolf you probably can't wear rings, but you can wear necklaces, belts, and headbands no problem.

What you really want is:

* A Headband of Intellect (so you can get Combat Expertise and Imptoved Trip)
* A Belt of Strength (because those things really rock)
* A Necklace of Natural Weapons: +1, Sweeping for one weapon.

At 5th level you can have any one of them - at higher levels you can have more than one.

The only thing you care about is tripping people better - so you are primarily concerned with Strength. This lends itself to Barbarian levels, but that may be off the list if you are a Paladin Mount. Failing that, go Sohei as Ki Frenzy does much the same thing here.

Since you are going to be charging with Ride by Attack all the friggin time - don't worry about anything that would make your full-attacks bigger. You are only concerned with your charges.

That would lend itself to things like FLying Kick, except that the Complete Warrior made it dumb. Sigh.

What do you have to work with?

Right out of the box, a Paladin Mount Cohort with a Necklace of Natural Weapons and Improved Trip should have a trip bonus of about +14, and an attack bonus of +13.

-Username17

[fbmf]

It is not a paladin mount. The character is a goblin, but we don't allow paladins in our game. We play 3.0 rules. We use the 3.0 version of Flying Kick.

I assume because it is a fifth level creature straight out of the box, that when the goblin is 20th level it will have 13 class levels. Is that wrong?

Game On,
fbmf

[Username17]

In 3rd edition rules, the Worg does not have a Cohort Level Adjustment. This is very good, because it means that it comes out of the box as a "CR 2 Cohort" - that's good. In 3rd edition rules, you also get a Cohort whose level is one less than yours instead of 2 less - that's good too.

On the other hand, the 3rd edition rules cause your Cohort to be an XP stealing smacktard - that's bad. It also gets half XP - which means that it will slowly fall behind your party until it is 2 levels behind you (unless you spend a lot of your XP) - that's bad as well. Also, the Worg only gets one feat per four Worg Hit Dice instead of 1 feat per three total hit dice - so it ends up being one hit die behind on its feat progression - that's bad, but since you are actually ahead in the hit die progression it doesn't matter much. On a similar vein, in 3rd edition rules the Worg does not get a stat boost for its fourth Worg hit die.

So by 3rd edition rules, when you get to 20th level, your Worg friend will have 16 class levels (but it will take you longer to get to 20th level than it would in 3.5 rules).

At 6th level you'll have 3 levels to play with on your cohort - I suggest a Fighter Level, a Barbarian level, and then go on to PrCs.

What you really want is for your mount to get levels of Devoted Defender - that's just sweet (as it can take your place when you are attacked and bite people for it and then you can negate the attack with your own mounted combat feat).

-Username17

[fbmf]

Okay, in consulting with the DM, the 3.5 version of Ledership will be used along with the cohort adjustment, so we're back to thirteen levels, right?

Game On,
fbmf

[Josh_Kablack]

This doesn't help from the PC side of the table, but as per page 133 of the 3.5 MM:

Goblins with levels in NPC classes have a CR equal to their character level -2

So a Goblin paladin1/warrior2 is still only a CR 1 opponent. In fact, all classed goblin opponents now get two free levels in any NPC class.

[Username17]

Okay, in consulting with the DM, the 3.5 version of Ledership will be used along with the cohort adjustment,

Wow. That kicks you coming and going, doesn't it?

The 3.5 Worg is significantly more powerful than the 3rd edition Worg, and is nonetheless overcharged massively for its use as a Cohort. So you are getting the worst overcharged cost with the least powerful model.

Blow that for a joke. Just get a Wizard Cohort - less than 18 class levels will get you a guy with Greater Planar Binding who can get you a Half-Fiendish Paragon Triceratops or something as a mount - which will kick the pants off a Worg with only 13 class levels.

The 3.5 Level Adjustment prices are way too high to pay for anything, the only reason it's even considerable for a Paladin is that you get to staple bonus hit dice in at the end which can eventually make up the difference.

-Username17

[Thoth_Amon]

But then the wizard cannot swap places with you, take the hit, and have you negate the damage with a ride check... Wow. That is a pretty cool trick.

TA

[User3]

Is there a prestige class that lets you use Mounted Combat more than once in a round? I could swear that I read one somewhere, but I can't think of it now.

What happens if two Devoted Defenders both use Harm's Way to take a hits for each other? Since there is no limit on how many times you can use it in a round, would the attack ever be resolved?