The Gaming Den

But Lago, men (a bunch of men I'm about as related to as I am to Hitler, possibly less) are still being troglodytes who only care about sex*! The show's teaching us the message that we've to pay for it, dammit!

Bigode, there is a difference between saying:

Members of the overclass (incl. nearly everyone living in the USA) got their privilege by oppressing other people and STILL retain an unfair amount of privilege even though they pretend everything is fair now:

and--

Members of the overclass should conform to stereotypes that oppress both them and people who only share some characteristics.

Look, you start a thread on how if we're tangentially related to any overclass (and let's face it, I don't live in a slum, so one could say it's not just being male either, and the guys in rich countries would b only worse) we've to feel horrible about it, you start a thread on how TV shows make you cry, and I'm "butthurt"? Sure.

1) White male Xtian Americans, even those lowest on the socioeconomic totem pole, still retain some measure of unfair privilege even if it's nowhere near as much as people on the top of the ladder. As you posted both in this and in that other threads, they are not only resistant to the idea of giving up that privilege but simply acknowledging it.

2) You attacked me out of the blue on a topic that doesn't have anything to do with the current topic because you're obviously still upset about what I posted in another thread. And not in a direct way, either, but in a whiny passive-aggressive way meant to sound witty and score points. If you don't like butthurt then call it upset, raw, whiny, bitchy, pissy, resentful, WHATEVER, you're still that, too.

Me? I'm whiny, too. Everyone on this damn board is, otherwise we wouldn't be here. But I also don't try to snipe at people from the sidelines while bringing up old baggage. That is a level of pissiness that needed a stronger adjective, which is why you got the big BH.

But in all seriousness, Count, if you think that my implying that Bigode has hemerrhoids from repressed rage is offensive, then I see what you mean and I take it back.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:But in all seriousness, Count, if you think that my implying that Bigode has hemerrhoids from repressed rage is offensive, then I see what you mean and I take it back.

Who are you, and what did you do to whoever used to be Lago_AM3P? Damn, I even thought "butthurt" meant "sexually abused", not just "hemorrhoids"!

Who are you, and what did you do to whoever used to be Lago_AM3P? Damn, I even thought "butthurt" meant "sexually abused", not just "hemorrhoids"!

I thought it did, too, until someone told me that the phrase was a meme generated from that South Park episode where Kyle gets rage-induced hemerrhoids from Cartman's undeserved good fortune and nearly dies of ass-cancer. The visual is funnier and a lot more vulgar so I prefer that entymology to just 'buttsex', because I sort of fail to see why a man or woman having had anal sex would find that a bad thing. Unless you're talking about prison rape or some shit, but it doesn't seem like 'impotent anger' would be the proper emotion to describe that kind of victimization.

Actually, wait, I just now see it.

You know what, I really fucking hate the Internet sometimes.

So anyway, now that OotS is firmly on the stupid rails--let's talk about what Bigode mentioned here, since he raised a good point.

1) If Black Dragons are evil and their destruction is supposed to be always a good thing no matter what the circumstances, then how is Vaarsuvius's latest activity evil? I mean, really, if he cast a spell that destroyed all demons or ghouls in the universe, no one would shed a tear for them. So why are the rules changed for dragons all of a sudden?

2) If they're not always evil (even just mostly evil), then why the hell did Roy and friends not suffer any karmic backlash? As Bigode mentioned, this is the stupidest descent into evil ever, considering that other party members have massacred hundreds of other intelligent evil races without bothering to learn their names. So why are the rules changed for dragons all of a sudden?

Look, I know I'm being whiny and snivelly--and what the hell, I'm being butthurt, too--about this, but I want to know goddammit!!! I hate this stupid plot, everything was set up to make Varsuuvius have no good choices. And then not once but TWICE when the author acknowledged that V didn't have to go down this stupid path he forced V to go down this ridiculous railroad plot anyway!

ARGH!

I hate everything.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:If they're not always evil (even just mostly evil), then why the hell did Roy and friends not suffer any karmic backlash? As Bigode mentioned, this is the stupidest descent into evil ever, considering that other party members have massacred hundreds of other intelligent evil races without bothering to learn their names. So why are the rules changed for dragons all of a sudden?

The Order has fought goblins, who were directly working for a mass-murdering lich attempting to undermine the fabric of reality, and hobgoblins who were prosecuting a war for the same lich. Those people were soldiers, they picked up weapons and stood forth ready and willing to fight.

The first Black Dragon they killed was responding to a home invasion and is less justifiable, but even it didn't try to negotiate or intimidate a solution. It just opened with the acid breath.

V murdered dozens of beings who had never threatened him or anyone he knew, for no reason. It wasn't even to make an example (as he claimed), since the only person who could have been deterred by the example was already dead.

V hasn't called it an example as far as I've seen, he's treating it as the logical extent of defending his family from the dragon. If one has seen fit to come after his family, it's not too farfetched that others might as well.

Let's face it - you can rationalize all you want, but Koumei already nailed it: the average reader of anything, right down to 1984, is pretty retarded. So the 300 goblinoids killed by burning oil at any given point are set pieces, while anything the author bothers to highlight's worth crying about (I wouldn't doubt literally, given the kinda people that seems to populate GitP). Besides, dracock = awesome > you. Then you add some "I don't follow the rules" BS to be lazy (and no, I don't uphold alignment rules, but not even trying to be internally consistent's another story).

Well, okay, I was digging Nagato/Pain in Naruto.

Except it turns out this guy has flaming red hair, which is portrayed as black in black-and-white.

...

What the hell was Kishimoto thinking?

What the hell was Kishimoto thinking?

It's not like he didn't do this before, with Karin.

But flaming red hair completely undermines his emo credentials.

I personally dislike Pain because he's a textbook Knight of Cerebus and he's introducing a 'things aren't funny anymore' arc after probably the lulziest portion in Part 2. I can't wait for Madara to take center stage, he's at least funnier and less angsty.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:

What the hell was Kishimoto thinking?

It's not like he didn't do this before, with Karin.

But flaming red hair completely undermines his emo credentials.

I personally dislike Pain because he's a textbook Knight of Cerebus and he's introducing a 'things aren't funny anymore' arc after probably the lulziest portion in Part 2. I can't wait for Madara to take center stage, he's at least funnier and less angsty.

I'm waiting for Pain to meet Sasuke.

I'm betting there will be a long argument about whose life sucks more.

And, anyway, when Pain finds out Sasuke & Co. beat the 8-tailed host, incapacitated him, and then fucking LOST him, I think he'll shit a brick, cough up blood, and die.

Assuming Pain, you know, actually survives to make it back home.

Anyone mind telling me how Vaarsuvius is getting kicked down the path of evil despite having a really good reason for what he did--

--and how Haley cold-bloodedly betraying and murdering someone for their cash will never be commented upon again?

By the way, the blatantly trying to push V to evil? Not fucking working. For one, he's not really acting all that differently and two the way he is acting differently is solely dependent on him suddenly losing his common sense. This heavy-handed villain painting didn't work with Therese and it's not going to work here, either, and the author of For Better or Worse is (was) a much more professional writer.

From what I saw, at least an entire thread popped up in response to Haley doing what she just did (and the entirety of the comments for that day); largely claiming that she's now a vengeance-filled evil person, or something to that effect.

Though to be honest, I don't see how doing that is any kind of betrayal. Crystal is a known antagonist that very loudly announced intentions to kill her when she had the chance. I'll give you ruthless, but that's not some kind of cardinal sin.

Not only was Haley murdering Crystal totally evil, it was also completely random. I mean seriously, there was no reason to even expect that-it came completely out of the blue. I have no idea wtf is going on with that.

If Haley is evil, then Greedo shot first.

Same deal, Crystal has made it clear that she'll kill Haley when she gets the chance, and death is only a slight drain on resources in D&D. It's a mere inconvenience that the thieves guild will have to scrape up 5,000 gp worth of diamonds to bring her back. Haley killing Crystal should be overlooked because it's not an evil act, and even not a huge deal at this level in the game. It's like if 1st level Haley gave crystal a wedgie, or put icy-hot on her vibrator.

I agree that V is not actually acting much different, he's just acting like he would at a much higher level. Then again, he's been a real prick this story arc. Not quite the same as being evil.

V is acting much more stressed than evil now. The genocide was bad, but that was the only evil thing he really did.

The Giant is really losing me here:

V is pretty much going down the path of evil by way of massive character derailment.

Haley just killed a member of a goldfish poop gang (see tv tropes) for absolutely no reason. It's not like Crystal was a threat. She attacks with pickles for crying out loud.

The only way I'd see V being evil is if s/he actually did more than scream in frustration at the rest of them. If V had murdered Daigo and Kasumi before teleporting to the rest, and then proceeded to dominate them all to shut them up to bask in the magical power, I could see an evil alignment shift ahead.

shau wrote:
V is pretty much going down the path of evil by way of massive character derailment.

He's not acting in a way that's any different than how he did before, he just has higher level spells.

Count_Arioch_the_28th wrote:
He's not acting in a way that's any different than how he did before, he just has higher level spells.

He killed his opponent, then resurrected her to kill her again while simultaneously killing her entire family. That is one hell of a kick the dog moment.

(I have no idea about the gender of either character)

One act does not an alignment make. Show me the pattern and I will agree. So far, there is Kubota and the dragon.

TOZ wrote:One act does not an alignment make. Show me the pattern and I will agree. So far, there is Kubota and the dragon.

Well, there was also the first dragon, though... that was standard adventurer killing a threat...

I wouldn't count that dragon on the list, for much the reason you qualified it. V killing the dragon is no different from soldiers killing enemy soldiers. Yeah, sure, talking could resolve the conflict peacefully, but the expected outcome is one side killing the other, and no one bats an eye. Effectively neutral.

I wouldn't call killing Kubota to be evil either.