The Story of BattleTech: What's wrong with it?

[Stahlseele]

The thing is, you can (and they have) totally done art that Harmony can't touch. Most of the names and the weapon positions are vaguely arbitrary, so I don't see why they don't.

Other than the history of theft. Btw, you can still see the unseen? in various video games.

-Crissa

various Video-Games?
Mechwarrior 1 and 2.
Mechwarrior 3 did not have them anymore, neither did any of the MechCommander Parts.
In MW4;Mercs, with the MekTekMekPeks, you get some, but still not all of them i think . . some are still missing in there also, because of more of the same legalese mumbojumbo . .

[Juton]

That's hardly a ringing endorsement for theft.

-Crissa

They didn't steal.

I really fucking hate this meme, it gets propagated because what really happened is complicated. Japan and North America license things differently, in NA the entirety of an intellectual property may be assigned to one party, for instance Harmony Gold gets the rights to every product macross related in NA, including things long after the original Robotech series. That's why it's unlikely we'll see Macross Frontier in NA anytime soon, because they'd have to let HG distribute it.

In Japan they license things differently, the rights to make 1/72nd scale toys may go to a different company than the rights to make 1/100 scale toys, etc. The different toys for the same intellectual property will actually compete against one another, to take the Macross Frontier example both Banpresto and Bandai make Macross Frontier toys and sell those in Japan.

So back in the 80's this wasn't as widely known. FASA obtained rights from TCI who obtained rights from someone else, I think at the time the rights to Macross where disputed in Japan. Harmony Gold got it's rights from Tatsunoko. So we have two different groups in NA who want to use those designs, we have two different licensing systems and we have two parent rights holders in Japan. This is where lawyers would sort this shit out, but FASA having a lot less market cap eventually acquiesced and settled out of court with HG.

So is that actually theft? It seems like FASA used the designs in the 80's with good faith and a measure of due-dilligence, but obviously not enough.

For those curious here's a link to the court documents:
http://alex.kaempen.org/harmony_gold_v._fasa.html

What actually got all this litigiousness started was this:
http://exosquad.virtue.nu/proto1.jpg
Playmates had a license with HG to use some of the Macross mecha to make exosquad toys. In that picture is a mech called a Mad Cat, it was produced in house by FASA and is in no way covered by HG licenses. FASA sued Playmates, then HG took notice and sued. It could be partially motivated by the need to pro-actively defend their copyright, if you are lax in defending it you can lose it. That could possibly be why HG threatened Smith and Tinker over Mechwarrior 5, even though the Warhammer mech in the trailer looks different then an Excalibur mecha from Robotech, if they are not active in enforcing copyright they risk losing it.

[adamjury]

It's Trademarks that you have to defend to not lose them, not copyrights.

[krainboltgreene]

Yep, AJ is correct.


PS. One of the reasons I'm glad he is on the EP team. I'd hate to have one of the best (maybe only?) CC games run by people who don't understand TM and C.

[magnuskn]

I repeat: Harmony Gold can suck dicks.

[Stahlseele]

I need to find one of these:
http://exosquad.virtue.nu/proto1.jpg
*want*

[krainboltgreene]

Haha, hotlink hijack.

[Dukeroyal]

The story breaks down for me in a few places:

1. Yvonne Steiner-Davion giving up the throne due to some bad polls and then at thge end of the Civil War we are supposed to believe that the people of the Federated Suns are going to accept a leader who quit just because some polls said she was doing a bad job. We are also supposed to believe that the AFFS High Command are going to accept Katherine as her replacement after she made her preference for the Lyran people public knowledge.

2. Victor's return after the Great Refusal: We are supposed to believe that the AFFS wouldn't have packed Katherine off as soon as Victor returned from the Clan Homeworlds the hero of the Inner Sphere. I think the AFFS would have put her on the first DropShip to Tharkad.

3. The Lyran Alliance voting to dissolve the 2nd Star League: This clearly is against their self interest because it took the combined might of the Star League to liberate the worlds that were occupied by the Smoke Jaguars. Are we supposed to believe that the Lyran Government thinks they can liberate all those worlds without the help of the rest of the League members? With this vote the Lyran Government is saying that it doesn't matter that there is a foreign occupier on our worlds, icluding occupying almost all of one of the founding members of the Lyran Commonwealth. The Estates General has removed Archons before and I am sure they would if Peter's Government cast this vote since if Peter's Government is willing to just effectively surrender the Clan occupied worlds why should any member of the Estates General think that the Lyran Government would be willing to fight if one of their worlds was invaded. In addition, you also have to consider the reaction of the Lyran people if the Lyran Government cast a vote to dissolve the Star League, and said, in effect, the occupied worlds do not matter.

There may be more, but these are the ones off the top of my head.

[magnuskn]

The story breaks down for me in a few places:

1. Yvonne Steiner-Davion giving up the throne due to some bad polls and then at thge end of the Civil War we are supposed to believe that the people of the Federated Suns are going to accept a leader who quit just because some polls said she was doing a bad job. We are also supposed to believe that the AFFS High Command are going to accept Katherine as her replacement after she made her preference for the Lyran people public knowledge.

That was the absolutely worst wallbanger moment of BT fiction, IMO. Was there really no better way to have the civil war between the LA and FS break out?

2. Victor's return after the Great Refusal: We are supposed to believe that the AFFS wouldn't have packed Katherine off as soon as Victor returned from the Clan Homeworlds the hero of the Inner Sphere. I think the AFFS would have put her on the first DropShip to Tharkad.

To be fair, Victor himself decided that he didn't want to start a civil war. Not the right decision, IMO, since it started anyway, but what can ya do?

3. The Lyran Alliance voting to dissolve the 2nd Star League: This clearly is against their self interest because it took the combined might of the Star League to liberate the worlds that were occupied by the Smoke Jaguars. Are we supposed to believe that the Lyran Government thinks they can liberate all those worlds without the help of the rest of the League members? With this vote the Lyran Government is saying that it doesn't matter that there is a foreign occupier on our worlds, icluding occupying almost all of one of the founding members of the Lyran Commonwealth. The Estates General has removed Archons before and I am sure they would if Peter's Government cast this vote since if Peter's Government is willing to just effectively surrender the Clan occupied worlds why should any member of the Estates General think that the Lyran Government would be willing to fight if one of their worlds was invaded. In addition, you also have to consider the reaction of the Lyran people if the Lyran Government cast a vote to dissolve the Star League, and said, in effect, the occupied worlds do not matter.

Yeah, Peter and Yvonne pulling out of the Star League made absolutely no sense to me. Sun-Tzu I could see, because he is a shit-disturber and opportunist, but the two Steiner-Davions making such a boneheaded move in unisono was... bad writing, once again.

[TheFlatline]

Why are we talking about sales and IMR again?

Because people insist that BattleTech is dying. I say that while it isn't near what it once was, that could be said about pen-n-paper gaming in general.

The profit margin on a garden variety BattleTech book is about 4 dollars a copy. Give or take.

Clutch

You're forgetting that the entire cost of the run is paid up front.

If CGL sells 1 copy of a book, they don't make a 4 dollar profit, they lose like 10k in development costs.

Let's be honest... BattleTech is sputtering because it's intentionally difficult to get into. It's overwhelming for even veteran gamers to get into with any seriousness. There's simply too much breadth.

You won't see a large influx of players coming in post mechwarrior 5 because MW5 reboots the timeline and goes back to the Inner Sphere days. Players who get attached to that have 30 real-world years of publications to catch up on in order to be brought up to speed with everyone else.

Plus, as was said elsewhere, you have to have product to sell in order to get people into the game.

[Juton]

Let's be honest... BattleTech is sputtering because it's intentionally difficult to get into. It's overwhelming for even veteran gamers to get into with any seriousness. There's simply too much breadth.

Lets be honest, there are a lot of reasons why Battletech isn't doing as well as it used to. Part of that is their product, part of that is marketing and part of that is that gaming in general seems to have declined this decade.

I keep hearing that there is too much breadth, are you talking about mechanics wise or plot wise? Gameplay wise I've seen newcomers buy a box set and where able to play next week. What they should really look into is a more gradual learning curve, like with MtG the basic game is not to hard but then there is a higher level of gameplay that takes longer to learn. They do this to an extent with their quickstart rules but those are really limited and only good for 1-2 games.

Plot wise, it's complicated but it's been going for 25 years, so it's going to get that way. Right now they have a perfect opportunity to make a setting newbie friendly, whether they will do this or not remains to be seen. Also I don't think the plot matters overly much, a good chunk of the gamers I played with where interested in only the mechanics and using custom mechs.

You won't see a large influx of players coming in post mechwarrior 5 because MW5 reboots the timeline and goes back to the Inner Sphere days. Players who get attached to that have 30 real-world years of publications to catch up on in order to be brought up to speed with everyone else.

That's a bit disingenuous, you could probably give a good summation of the current time line in about 5 paragraphs. You could dedicate a chapter of the book to a more in depth timeline and effectively catch a player up on the areas they are interested in. I've explained the backstory to a new player in about a minute, so while there is depth you don't need a Ph.D. to play.

MW5 will be really important because there will be an influx of new players, if they handle it well, with an attractive boxset of the more popular mechs in the game, good quickstart rules and free mech editor program on a CD. Then they can have a huge hit, but it's their game to lose, assuming MW5 actually sees the light of day.

[Clutch9800]

Let's be honest... BattleTech is sputtering because it's intentionally difficult to get into. It's overwhelming for even veteran gamers to get into with any seriousness. There's simply too much breadth.

Dixie,

Honestly, I could teach you to play BattleTech in an hour. I mean, after one hour you would know how to play the game, not it's intricacies, but you could play and win a game. Of course you could say the same thing about chess.

Clutch

[Stahlseele]

Well, of course they would have to get the rights to use the unseen or at least make new models that resemble those in the MW5 game for the newbies to really stick with it, after MW5 comes out . .
As for the comparsion to chess:
Yes, very much so. If i have to explain Battletech to someone, i tell them it's basically like chess only with 6 sided fields and distance weapons . .
Of course that's in pretty broad strokes and leaving out so much, but most people generally get the gist of it from that description . .

[Centurion13]

Anything new to report, Frank? Or are Masters Coleman and Randall going to get away with their shit?

I note the company shills over at the BattleTech site are busy patting themselves on the backs for getting their PDFs out for several large pubs, as opposed to the nickel-dime writing they've been doing recently. Good for them. I hope the artists and writers get paid.

I know the SOBs have to go back to court on 9 August. But is anything else developing?

Also, I think I locked onto Coleman's house from orbit. Is it that victorian-looking pile of wood and concrete sitting right next to another house? Goddamn, that place is huge.

I am still working on my own BattleTech-related project, which is nearly done but for some payments :/ There has been a decided cooling of my interest in this game since this whole thing blew up. I can barely bring myself to read the posts from people over on their forums. What a pack of smirking wankers! Watching their 'heroes' fuck everyone around, including them, and then cheering when the SOBs get away with it.

Yay, Catalyst. The Bernie Madoffs of the gaming industry.

Cent13

[Blasted]

I note the company shills over at the BattleTech site are busy patting themselves on the backs for getting their PDFs out for several large pubs, as opposed to the nickel-dime writing they've been doing recently. Good for them. I hope the artists and writers get paid.

Have you seen TRO:3085? I'm guessing not, do as I did and have a look over another gamer's copy. Let's say that there hasn't been any improvement over any other TRO. Mind you, I haven't managed to read through an entire entry yet, so there may have been some miraculous recovery in writing/editing over what I did read, but I wouldn't bet on it. I'll have a go at that at the next game.

I know the SOBs have to go back to court on 9 August. But is anything else developing?

Impatient, aren't you. 7 more days.

[Juton]

I've looked through the new TRO, the problem with the really big books is that each new mech doesn't feel special or develop a personality. It's more of the same, and if you like the same then you'll like this, the only people it will appeal to are Battletech fans and maybe people who used to be fans of the old click game.

The coolest things in the book are the new infantry and the transformers. Which could be a problem because hardly anyone ever uses infantry and Land-Air-Mechs (basically transformers) are all banned by every experienced Battletecher.

I didn't notice any egregious spelling or grammar mistakes, but I wasn't looking for that. I did notice that a lot of the more recognizable handles on the message boards where accredited as proof readers and there was something like 15 writers involved, some one who is more familiar with the business could maybe suggest why there where so many writers used for this project.

[Blasted]

I believe that it's due to the battlecorps competition to provide designs.

[TheFlatline]

Let's be honest... BattleTech is sputtering because it's intentionally difficult to get into. It's overwhelming for even veteran gamers to get into with any seriousness. There's simply too much breadth.

Dixie,

Honestly, I could teach you to play BattleTech in an hour. I mean, after one hour you would know how to play the game, not it's intricacies, but you could play and win a game. Of course you could say the same thing about chess.

Clutch

I needed to clarify that statement. I actually do know how to play BattleTech. I've played several games. It's fun. I'd like to play it more. Getting my friends into the hobby (and getting myself deeper into the IP itself) however is extremely difficult.

Edit: What follows is a long rant, and I sadly wandered off of the original topic. Once you get into me talking about point B below, it wanders off. Ignore if you please, I wouldn't blame you.

What I meant was that A) There's no really good overview of the setting to put you on the same page as the rest of the fans (Even a 5 page overview of the timeline is going to be useless when people start referencing characters from novels for entire conversations) and B) it's an utter pain in the ass to get models, maps, and books all together without going on a scavenger hunt.

The problem with point A is that it it separates the old fans from the new fans into two distinct groups: The ones who have read the books and the ones who haven't. There's even that issue here in TGD whenever BattleTech is talked about. Instead of a unified timeline to provide a common ground, it acts as a barrier.

The problem with point B is the more immediate. I might not necessarily care about the BT community and continuity if I have a group of players that I can play with, though CGL loses out ultimately if I drop out of the community (which isn't the most n00b friendly from various accounts). However, as was mentioned, the boxed set is shit. I have it. I like all the plastic figs, and the 2 sheets of maps are okay to start with, and I don't even mind the rules ramp-up. All that works. But seriously, the fucking mechs they include span over 100 years. Even if I go by tonnage, I have no real way of substantially comparing the total "value" of one mech versus another (compared to the BPV system of Starfleet Battles, which while requiring fudging, could at least at a glance tell you if your frigate was totally outclassed by the other dude's frigate). The Starter box is a cross-slice of the entire IP. I get the rules, I get like the barest of the plot, but now what?

Can I buy more plastic figs? Not from CGL: Their entire online store is empty/out of stock for all but 2 mechs. Can I buy pewter figs? Well yes I can buy pewter, but not from CGL, and CGL barely discusses where you can get fucking game pieces FOR THEIR OWN GAME.

Now let's say I buy a pewter fig. Let's say I want to play with a MadCat, since that's one of the iconic mechs. Well I need a record sheet. But flipping through the Total Warfare book, there's no mech record sheet that I can find, and though they're talked about in the book, there's no reference to where I can actually fucking find them. And this is supposedly the only resource I need to actually play any tournament-sanctioned game. Maybe it's in there, but I never found it.

However, there's yet another 3rd party who makes a program that will generate your mech sheets. It's only 30 bucks. Though I don't think CGL guides you there either. Maybe I need another book? Which one? There's two more "core" books, one about building mechs, and the other about... I want to say experimental tech/rules, and then there's references to technical readouts, which might be a good place to pick up record sheets, I don't know, and if that is the case, which readout do I buy? You mean I have to fucking research that now too?

This is what I mean by "it's fucking hard to get into Battletech". I'm sure if I'm a longtime fan, or if I have someone guiding me, it's doable, but it is literally inevitable that I will hit a wall sooner or later that prevents me from playing this game if I'm on my own. I'm sure given time and effort I could get around such impediments, but gaming is supposed to be fun, and not a chore. I'm in my 30's, I've been gaming for 20 years or so now, and I have a full time job, a social life, I have to deal with family, and I generally don't have a huge amount of free time. If I have to go on a scavenger hunt to play a game, then I'm much better off buying something that was designed for a new player to get into from the beginning.

And the above paragraph is the core, root problem with Battletech. You *can't* open up new demographics because your game isn't designed to let new folks in without them being initiated. Battletech is like a fucking clubhouse. Unless someone is going to sponsor you, odds are you won't get into it.

I mean really, can you imagine a board game, like Arkham Horror say, where you bought the box, but you had to go to a different company to get half the cards, another company to get the other half, and the instructions reference character sheets but only 3 come with the game and there are no references where to get the rest? If Fantasy Flight Games actually released a product like that, it'd get laughed out of the industry. Battletech is surviving on it's own history, and the dedication of an aging group of fans.

[Centurion13]

Let's say I want to play with a MadCat, since that's one of the iconic mechs. Well I need a record sheet. But flipping through the Total Warfare book, there's no mech record sheet that I can find, and though they're talked about in the book, there's no reference to where I can actually fucking find them. And this is supposedly the only resource I need to actually play any tournament-sanctioned game. Maybe it's in there, but I never found it.

Good point. I am working on a fan-based Technical Readout. It will be released in PDF form first, with a very limited run of paper copies afterward (do it yourself printing is suddenly difficult when you need a landscape book, apparently).

And the first thing I thought when I began to edit was this: of all things it would be a godsend to every player, new and old, to provide not just the game stats in the TRO itself, but a second PDF containing record sheets for every single machine featured therein - including the variants and one-offs mentioned in the writeups.

Which is what we've done. So far, so good. Just the artwork to finish and a good layout man and we're golden. $3000 in art and climbing, but it will be worth it. Because, for one thing, we don't feature crapulent head-scratchers which leave it to the player to puzzle out what the fuck he's supposed to do with a substandard POS 'Mech or tank.

We took the middle road that a lot of reviewers do - yeah, the harsh review gets a lot of attention and traffic, but really, unless it's something you want to warn folks not to buy, why not just publish good reviews of good products? If I don't mention game X, then you can assume I have nothing good to say about it.

The problem with the TROs up to this point (or one of them) is that a goodly number of the featured machines are pretty bad designs. And while this could be excused during the ramp-up to a production run, why do we have to see it in a thirty-dollar TRO which is supposed to showcase the damned things?

This is another curve ball thrown at the new player, who mistakenly assumes that, because CGL thought it worth publishing on real paper, the machines must be worth fielding. They're not. There is little correlation between the two at all.

Sometimes... sometimes I get the uncomfortable feeling that the folks in charge of the writing and editing must be laughing their asses off at the poor dumb boobs who anxiously scoop up a copy as soon as it hits the street. The noobs are screwed doubly, because they haven't been playing long enough to know they've been rooked.

Cent13[/i]

[Juton]

For a time you didn't need to buy any record sheet PDFs, their is a program called HeavyMetalPro that lets you print out Battlemechs and design your own. It was an official product so you could use its printouts at a tournament. It hasn't been updated in a few years so it can't handle the new weapons/systems dependably so it's gone obsolete.

A lot of mechs (the majority) do actually see use in tournament play, because that encourages/enforces using factional units, and sub-par units are usually cheaper in points. But if you plunk down 30 bucks you want to see at least 30 cool units, I haven't found that many in the new TRO yet.

[Centurion13]

For a time you didn't need to buy any record sheet PDFs, their is a program called HeavyMetalPro that lets you print out Battlemechs and design your own. It was an official product so you could use its printouts at a tournament. It hasn't been updated in a few years so it can't handle the new weapons/systems dependably so it's gone obsolete.

There are other programs which do the same job - I don't find them as user-friendly and there have been many updates to HMP which brings it nearly into the fold as far as compatibility with the current game.

Which is entirely beside the point - The Flatline pointed out that the game is difficult for a novice to enter. This is due in no small part to the scattering of the necessary materials for play across half the damn universe.

Yes, HMP is a wonderful program and as soon as those... delightful people over at CGL (Catalyst Game Labs - not Concealed Gratuitous Looting) finish with the rules, I am sure the next version will be readied. How is this obvious to a new player? How does it make it easier to get into the game?

To be fair, Heavy Metal Pro was never intended to do that. But again, that's not The Flatline's concern. He doesn't worry that there are no wonderful programs out there to help players - it's that a lone player will never discover these things even exist without a lot of work... and until they do, they cannot effectively play the game.

And that is very much a hurdle for the game of BattleTech.

The current method of recruiting new players? Depends largely on friendly gamers who want to see new faces and encourage play which will keep those new faces happy and coming back. My son played BattleTech when he was only eight, and took second place in a local tournament. He is now fifteen and not interested. Why?

Simple. Because the people who are playing/organizing the game do not give a rip whether a turn lasts an hour or not. And my son is smart, very smart. He can see three or four turns into the future. Can you imagine being able to see four hours into the future and then being forced to stand around and wait for it to happen? Needless to say, he becomes very quickly bored by a bunch of middle-aged men (I am being charitable here) who stand around yapping when they should be moving and planning and shooting.

You're never going to recruit new players that way, not in today's culture of instant gratification. And most of the existing players have no interest in speeding things up for the new generation. Who will take over when we are too damned old to see the miniatures?

The answer is: no one. And the people making the game simply don't care.

Cent13

[magnuskn]

For a time you didn't need to buy any record sheet PDFs, their is a program called HeavyMetalPro that lets you print out Battlemechs and design your own. It was an official product so you could use its printouts at a tournament. It hasn't been updated in a few years so it can't handle the new weapons/systems dependably so it's gone obsolete.

There are other programs which do the same job - I don't find them as user-friendly and there have been many updates to HMP which brings it nearly into the fold as far as compatibility with the current game.

Which is entirely beside the point - The Flatline pointed out that the game is difficult for a novice to enter. This is due in no small part to the scattering of the necessary materials for play across half the damn universe.

Yes, HMP is a wonderful program and as soon as those delightful people over at CGL (Catalyst Game Labs - not Concealed Gratuitous Looting) finish with the rules, I am sure the next version will be readied. How is this obvious to a new player? How does it make it easier to get into the game?

To be fair, Heavy Metal Pro was never intended to do that. But again, that's not The Flatline's concern. He doesn't worry that there are no wonderful programs out there to help players - it's that a lone player will never discover these things even exist without a lot of work... and until they do, they cannot effectively play the game.

And that is very much a hurdle for the game of BattleTech.

The current method of recruiting new players? Depends largely on friendly gamers who want to see new faces and encourage play which will keep those players coming back. My son played BattleTech when he was only eight, and took second place in a local tournament. He is now fifteen and not interested. Why?

Simple. Because the people who are playing/organizing the game do not give a rip whether a turn lasts an hour or not. And my son is smart, very smart. He can see three or four turns into the future. Can you imagine being able to see four hours into the future and then being forced to stand around and wait for it to happen? Needless to say, he becomes very quickly bored by a bunch of middle-aged men (I am being charitable here) who stand around yapping when they should be moving and planning and shooting.

You're never going to recruit new players that way, not in today's culture of instant gratification. And most of the existing players have no interest in speeding things up for the new generation. Who will take over when we are too damned old to see the miniatures?

The answer is: no one. And the people making the game simply don't care.

Cent13

While I suck at planning turns ahead ( but I have the luck of being in a MechForce chapter with one of the best players of Germany, who does have that ability. ), I have enough experience with the game to at least have my next move planned out before its my turn. I've been actively playing the game for eleven years by now and many of my peers have more time active. About half of them still need 15 to 30 minutes when its their turn. Ugh.

[Juton]

What's keeping HeavyMetal Pro from being updated is that the programmer doesn't have time to do so. Seriously though, a mech designer should be included in the core box, if only so that you can print your own record sheets because a lot more people have printers then have copiers.

One of the things I like about Battletech is that you don't have to plan more than 2 or 3 turns in advance because of its stochastic nature. I find it more engaging plus you won't ever hear anyone tell you 'Mate in 7', which I've always found soul-crushing. However you really should be planning your moves while your opponent is moving his units, with experienced players you should be able to get a 4v4 match resolved in under two hours.

[TheFlatline]

Centurion nails it. Ironically, the solution to 1 hour or 30 minute turns is to get more players into the game, so you have more options. And Battletech is resistant to new blood.

As it stands, I know one person who played Battletech 20 years ago, and still has the Battledroids product that it used to be called. He doesn't remember the rules at all. I have one other friend who lives 2 hours away that knows how to play Battletech. There is no local group that plays it. None of the gaming stores carry the products. I'm almost the perfect poster boy for introducing the game into a new "market". This town is virgin territory and has a strong gaming population.

So, if I want to play BT, I basically have to start a gaming group. Which is fucking near impossible to do with battletech. If I dropped significant money and dozens of hours into *prepping* to start a battletech group, I could probably do it, and bring people in by giving them access to my resources, but the expenditure of time and money on my part before I play my first game of Battletech is insane.

What makes it even more astounding is that CGL doesn't do this with Shadowrun. I can get new blood into shadowrun almost without effort. I can give the players a clear, easy to follow list of equipment that they need. They need the core book obviously. They flip through the core book, and aside from dice, they have what they need to at least get started. Maybe they want Unwired, maybe they want Arsenal. We're only talking maybe 5 products total to cover all of the basic bases. So CGL knows better. It's just that the product lead for Battletech is so into the "old boys club" that he doesn't give a shit about getting new blood into the game.

If CGL *only* did Battletech, then yes, I could cut them a little slack for just being uber-fanboys. But they don't just publish Battletech. They publish other games that don't have this issue. Granted, the logistics are a little different for a tabletop game, but still, there should be someone at the top who is looking at the product line's performance and assign goals to the product lead.

I don't know if CGL can make resin figs, but my solution would be to either contract with the guys who make the pewter figs or with someone else to do high-quality resin casts, and start releasing Lance box sets. Each box set, for say 40 or 50 bucks, contains 5 or 6 mechs all from one clan or whatever, with a varying assortment of models and tonnages, and they all contain the records sheets and one map. I'd either release parallel to Total Warfare or meld *into* total warfare the "base" timeframe (what passes for battletech modern day), which lays out the state of the galaxy and how to create scenarios for this time period. I'd color code this era, say blue, and color theme the lance packs and the individual mechs, so at a *glance* I get a 25 year window while I'm browsing products.

I'd then release maybe 3 or 4 other "era" supplements, taking you back to the Inner Sphere. Color code those fuckers too. That way, you could buy 2 or 3 products (the lance pack, Total Warfare, and potentially the era book), and be able to get significantly into the game with a few other people. Everyone's on the same page, and everyone knows what they need to buy and how to buy it.

On the website I'd have a timeline that simply color coded each year into a different era, so that the old stuff could be classed as "blue era" say for n00bs to get into.

TROs at this point would also consist of new mech and tech specs, plus the record sheets. If the price needs to be adjusted up to maintain profitability, so much the better.

I'd then, if I had the cash flow, box a starter kit with the Total Warfare rules, a few maps, record sheets, and two lances of same era mechs for like 60 or 70 bucks, and I'd spam the local gaming stores with them. I'd give free product to game stores that hosted weekly or monthly "start playing battletech" demos that encouraged even familiar players to come in and participate, like say a custom demo-only mech frame & record sheet if you participate in 3 demos. You'll pull the old guard in to get the rarity, and that will help integrate the community.

It'd take a shitload of money to do properly, but the idea that battletech brings in significantly less than a million bucks a year is kind of astounding, especially since it's a globally known IP with a good pedigree behind it. It *should* be doing better just on the inertia of it's name recognition.

[Centurion13]

What's keeping HeavyMetal Pro from being updated is that the programmer doesn't have time to do so.

He doesn't have the time because, besides dealing with some serious personal life issues, he has had to contend with constantly changing variables. 'Feature creep' is a very real problem with HMP 6.0 and I am not at all surprised Rick has not finished it. It won't be done until those... wonderful people at CGL have finished making up the rules... and after the players pay for the privilege of debugging said rules.

... which is just another reason why a new player would be reluctant to purchase the game cold off the shelf.

Cent13