Tiers and Levels

General questions, debates, and rants about RPGs

Moderator: Moderators

Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

Ganbare Gincun wrote:I've been kicking around the word "Passionate" in my mind, and I think "Spirited" would be a better choice of term. It's pithier, and doesn't have the kind of romantic connotations that "Passionate" would have in the minds of some readers. Anyways, here's how I would suggest dividing up regular weapon attacks under this framework:

Cunning - Bows, Chains, Daggers, Rapiers, Sickles

Mighty - Clubs/Staves, Flails, Hammers/Maces, Picks, Polearms

Spirited - Axes, Claws/Gauntlets/Unarmed Attacks, Falchions/Scimitars, Javelins/Spears, Swords

What do you think, sirs?
I don't know why, but I prefer "strong" to "mighty". It's obviously not a syllables thing, because I don't feel the same aversion to "Cunning". That being said, the three syllables thing of "passionate" (and for that matter: "spirited" as well) is probably too far. Maybe something easier to write like "fervid"?

Not sure. But the Machiavellian split into strength, cleverness, and conviction seems like a decent enough split for resistances.

-Username17
User avatar
Ganbare Gincun
Duke
Posts: 1022
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:42 am

Post by Ganbare Gincun »

FrankTrollman wrote:I don't know why, but I prefer "strong" to "mighty". It's obviously not a syllables thing, because I don't feel the same aversion to "Cunning".
I was thinking along the same lines, but I fear that if we have a "Strong" attack classification, people will think "oh, that's where all of the Fighter powers go, because Fighters are Strong". And then "Strong" powers are only relegated to Fighters and Wizards get all of their powers dropped into the Cunning and Spirited categories. Gamers are totally down with talking about "mighty wizards", but not strong ones.
FrankTrollman wrote:That being said, the three syllables thing of "passionate" (and for that matter: "spirited" as well) is probably too far. Maybe something easier to write like "fervid"?

Not sure. But the Machiavellian split into strength, cleverness, and conviction seems like a decent enough split for resistances.
Fervid/Fervent actually works out very well because of its secondary meaning of "glowing", which dovetails quite nicely with the concept of having "Luminaries" running around.
User avatar
Orion
Prince
Posts: 3756
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Orion »

Power, Wits, and Spirit
Orca
Knight-Baron
Posts: 877
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:31 am

Post by Orca »

Orion wrote:Power, Wits, and Spirit
I like this. Fervid/fervent sounds wrong to me somehow.
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

I think the reason that "Cunning" works so much better than "Mighty" is the different parts of speech the terms appear in when they are used as attack modifiers vs. when they are used as Resistance values. That is, when you hit someone with a Fireball, the Fireball itself is the subject or object of the sentence and the fact that it is Mighty or Strong or Powerful or whatever is a modifying adjective. However, when you are targeting someone's resistance, the "resistance" part is assumed. You're just concerned about the category and the number. Which means that "Cunning" or "Mighty" is in fact the subject or object of the sentence. And this is so true that you are likely going to be talking about it as a noun, which conveniently enough is still Cunning in the case of that, but which is Might and not Mighty in the other case.

Which brings me to bottom line on why "Mighty" doesn't work: it doesn't really mean the same thing as the direct adjectival form of "Might". It is an inherently comparative word. It's not analogous to "Red" it's analogous to "Redder". A smaller amount of Mighty doesn't make contextual sense.

But Cunning is fucking awesome. You can have "more Cunning" or "less Cunning". You can talk about "low Cunning" and "high Cunning". You can talk about "a Cunning attack" and you can talk about how "you used your Cunning". Swap it in for Might or any derivations of Might and it doesn't work a tenth as well. So regardless of what other words we use for attacks and resistances, I am totally sold on the word "Cunning".

-Username17
User avatar
Judging__Eagle
Prince
Posts: 4671
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lake Ontario is in my backyard; Canada

Post by Judging__Eagle »

I like alliteration, since it helps people to memorize a group of words.

Weight, Wit, Will.

Spirit seems a bit too wish-washy, and we are referring to willpower with that term in any case.

Other sets of words with the same meanings.

Clout, Cunning, Conviction (this one looks best so far for me)

Durability, Deception, Determination

Powerful, Plotting, Passionate (an other good set)

[edit]

Someone mentioned strong

Strong, Subtle, Self
Last edited by Judging__Eagle on Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Gaming Den; where Mathematics are rigorously applied to Mythology.

While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
User avatar
virgil
King
Posts: 6343
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by virgil »

Behold, the power of a thesaurus! I stuck to the idea the word being able to fit in the "more/less X" and "a(n) X attack"

Varieties of Cunning: Deft, Adept, Learned
Varieties of Mighty: Potent, Force, Telling
Varieties of Passionate: Bright, Eminent, Spirited, Wanton

Unfortunately, none of them terribly work with the "you used your X" part, except maybe Force. Lago's 'weight' works though.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
K
King
Posts: 6487
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by K »

I've always liked Potence.
koz
Duke
Posts: 1585
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:39 pm
Location: Oz

Post by koz »

virgil wrote:Behold, the power of a thesaurus! I stuck to the idea the word being able to fit in the "more/less X" and "a(n) X attack"

Varieties of Cunning: Deft, Adept, Learned
Varieties of Mighty: Potent, Force, Telling
Varieties of Passionate: Bright, Eminent, Spirited, Wanton

Unfortunately, none of them terribly work with the "you used your X" part, except maybe Force. Lago's 'weight' works though.
Cunning, as Frank put it, is actually fine. K's suggestion of Potence also seems good. For my 10 cents, how about Eminence? Spirit is also not too bad.
Everything I learned about DnD, I learned from Frank Trollman.
Kaelik wrote:You are so full of Strawmen that I can only assume you actually shit actual straw.
souran wrote:...uber, nerd-rage-inducing, minutia-devoted, pointless blithering shit.
Schwarzkopf wrote:The Den, your one-stop shop for in-depth analysis of Dungeons & Dragons and distressingly credible threats of oral rape.
DSM wrote:Apparently, The GM's Going To Punch You in Your Goddamned Face edition of D&D is getting more traction than I expected. Well, it beats playing 4th. Probably 5th, too.
Frank Trollman wrote:Giving someone a mouth full of cock is a standard action.
PoliteNewb wrote:If size means anything, it's what position you have to get in to give a BJ.
Image
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

For reasons of character sheet abbreviation, you want each word in a simple list to start with a different letter. The fact that Charisma and Constitution start with the same letter was the cause of more wasted pencil scratches through the ages than any other arbitrary choice of Dungeons & Dragons.

SR4 has too many stats, but the fact that it abbreviates BARSCILW is about 100% better than if Body was named Constitution instead. Different first initials is key. If you can get them to spell something, so much the better. Potence/Cuning/Spirit, for example: could be called your "PCS" (pronounced "Pee Sees").

-Username17
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13977
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

FrankTrollman wrote:If you can get them to spell something, so much the better.
Of course, one shouldn't spend too much time trying to make them spell a word, as I have done with games before. There really is no requirement to make the stats spell a rude word.

PCS is fine. Making them spell CAT or BUM for instance, would be dumb.
User avatar
Judging__Eagle
Prince
Posts: 4671
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lake Ontario is in my backyard; Canada

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Hmm, that makes sense.

I'm not really using stats in my own system. They're more background and flavor related powers.
The Gaming Den; where Mathematics are rigorously applied to Mythology.

While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
User avatar
Ganbare Gincun
Duke
Posts: 1022
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:42 am

Post by Ganbare Gincun »

How about Zealous instead of Spirited? It has fewer syllables and has more "punch" to it. So you'd be looking at Cunning attacks, Potent attacks, and Zealous attacks, and your resistances would be Cunning, Potence, and Zeal.
User avatar
CatharzGodfoot
King
Posts: 5668
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by CatharzGodfoot »

How about Smart, Happy, and Best?
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.

-Josh Kablack

Post Reply