How to date like a nerd

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:06 am

Setting aside the question of whether "negging" is tasteful or ethical,

no

, I think it's a serious misapplication of technique to do so with someone you are hoping to date. I know that PUAs promise the world these days and make all kinds of claims, but this is a case where it helps to remember the main promise and thus default assumption of PUA advice. PUAs promise that at a bar or other "singles" event with many unattached women to approach, you will be able to have sex with one of them.

PUA techniques in general are about making each encounter sexual as quickly as possible and abandoning each conversation as soon as your realize sex is not going to happen. If your goal is to avoid going home alone, this makes sense. Even if PUA techniques were actively offputting (hint: many are) to the point where they halved your chance of getting lucky, if they were three times faster you would get 50% more casual sex. That doesn't mean it would be the optimal approach if you had your heart set on one particular woman. And, even if you get laid, you probably haven't presented yourself as a desirable long-term partner.

When it comes to negging specifically, there are enough fucked up, insecure women in the world that I'm sure veiled insults will get you into *somebodies* pants. And starting out by demeaning your target will quickly sort out the people with spines, leaving you only the easily manipulated to spend time on. So I can see this being a way to get laid. But I'm pretty sure that women *in general* don't like to be insulted, and women you want to date almost never do.

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:19 pm

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:19 pm

Urban Dictionary:Neg wrote:A light insult wrapped in the package of a complement. Used by pick-up artists to gain and maintain the attention of women who possess uncommon beauty (9+). These women are immune to standard complements.
The classic neg

pua - "you have beautiful nails, are they real?"
(9+) -"not really"
pua - "Oh, I guess thats still cool"

pua - "that's really cute, your nose wiggles when you speak"
(9+) -"no it doesn't"
pua - "ha ha, there it goes again, sorry, its just really cute"

These are hilarious when some PUA tries them on a woman who knows how PUAs operate.

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:21 pm

sabs · Post by **sabs** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:29 pm

ubernoob wrote:Those are not insults. Those are flirting.

And you're single? I find that quite shocking.
Those are all clearly backhanded complements meant to make the recipient insecure. They /are/ insults. If you think that's flirting, you need to date a better class of women. Actually, if you think that's flirting, a better class of women won't date you.. So never mind.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:30 pm

Sorry, Ubernoob, the sources say otherwise. Okay, so the sites all say that "a neg is not an insult." And okay, some of the example negs aren't precisely insults. But plenty of them are. Some gems from here and here

"You are really interesting, or at least you're not THAT ugly."
"No really, I've seen uglier girls"
"Well, at least you should be lucky to have a good body [to compensate for whatever it was you negged]"
"I don't think we should get to know each other."
Oooh... Sick... You just spit on me!" (when the girl is talking to you).
"is that a hair piece? well, its neat... what do you call this hairstyle? The waffle?

"

All neghits are judgmental, since they basically all involve giving unsolicitied opinions about a woman's appearance or bearing. Some are judgmental but not negative, just drawing attention to a feature of hers you like but she doesn't. The ones I've quoted are both judgmental and negative, which is the definition of insulting. They may be set up as backhanded compliments, but that is a kind of insult. You can argue if you want, but only if you can produce some women who wouldn't feel insulted by these.

Post by **fbmf** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:31 pm

Juton wrote:
Urban Dictionary:Neg wrote:A light insult wrapped in the package of a complement. Used by pick-up artists to gain and maintain the attention of women who possess uncommon beauty (9+). These women are immune to standard complements.
The classic neg

pua - "you have beautiful nails, are they real?"
(9+) -"not really"
pua - "Oh, I guess thats still cool"

pua - "that's really cute, your nose wiggles when you speak"
(9+) -"no it doesn't"
pua - "ha ha, there it goes again, sorry, its just really cute"
These are hilarious when some PUA tries them on a woman who knows how PUAs operate.

Bolding mine.

The first is a light insult, the second is you being condescending, which is insulting.

Please understand that I'm not judging. I read Tucker Max and think he is funny, but wouldn't let him near my sister or daughter. By his own admission he is a very shallow.

Game On,
fbmf

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:46 pm

Yeah, I'm going to have to submit that I've always considered "negging" a woman to be one step shy of rape.

That might be a little extreme.

Datawolf · Post by **Datawolf** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:59 pm

ubernoob wrote:Edit, if anyone cares an explanation is in the spoilerblock.

Basically, I didn't take into account the sheer number of suitors and the business of her schedule. After a little heart to heart earlier this week, we came to the conclusion that it would be best for us to avoid formal dates, but we can be friends and just see where that goes. The girl in question is totally sweet on me, but she doesn't feel she has the time to devote to a formal relationship and doesn't want to be breaking another heart (she has a history).

So, she digs me, but doesn't want to have any formal relationship. Obviously the physical situation will continue, but without any expectations of emotional commitment beyond friends.

The neg thing included in the quote I had earlier was superfluous. I'd been trying to date this girl specifically because she had enough of a personality that I wanted to make her my gal. I don't think I've been this sweet to a girl in quite a while.

TLDR: She doesn't want a relationship. Friends and sex are good, but relationships lead to her breaking guys' hearts. She wants to stop being a heartbreaker before she gets into another relationship.

Wait... I may be misinterpreting your statement... but does she have a lot of other guys chasing after her? Is that why she doesn't want a relationship? To avoid breaking their hearts? How is sleeping with you gonig to stop that from happening?

sabs · Post by **sabs** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:01 pm

Psychic Robot wrote:
Yeah, I'm going to have to submit that I've always considered "negging" a woman to be one step shy of rape.
That might be a little extreme.

Yes, it's more like Emotional Abuse

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:01 pm

It is closer to that.

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:55 am

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:32 am

ubernoob wrote:[
The other day the dude she was dating before she met me (and hasn't actually cut it off with) told her that he loved her and this wasn't a shock to her. So yeah, she's a heartbreaker.

No, no. that just makes her Han Solo. Well, I suppose he was a heartbreaker, too. damn.

Blasted · Post by **Blasted** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:13 am

Or it makes the previous BF a creepy stalker.

sabs · Post by **sabs** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:15 pm

well but he's not the previous boyfriend. He's the current boyfriend, and Ubernoob is the Other Man.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:43 pm

Cynic wrote:
ubernoob wrote:[
The other day the dude she was dating before she met me (and hasn't actually cut it off with) told her that he loved her and this wasn't a shock to her. So yeah, she's a heartbreaker.
No, no. that just makes her Han Solo. Well, I suppose he was a heartbreaker, too. damn.

Depends on whether or not she shot first.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:59 pm

Darth Rabbitt wrote:
Cynic wrote:Han Solo
Depends on whether or not she shot first.

That's what she said. I guess that would be he in this case.

Datawolf · Post by **Datawolf** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:30 pm

ubernoob wrote:
Datawolf wrote:Wait... I may be misinterpreting your statement... but does she have a lot of other guys chasing after her? Is that why she doesn't want a relationship? To avoid breaking their hearts? How is sleeping with you gonig to stop that from happening?
The other day the dude she was dating before she met me (and hasn't actually cut it off with) told her that he loved her and this wasn't a shock to her. So yeah, she's a heartbreaker.

So... she's cheating on her boyfriend with you? This girl sounds like bad news. If she's unwilling to completely break it off with either one of you I would suggest breaking it off with her, since it would seem that she's playing both of you guys.

To be fair, I don't know you personally and don't know this lady friend of yours from Natalie Portman. That being said, everything you've posted here would lead me to suspect that this is going to end badly for everyone involved.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:24 pm

Well, it sounds like she may not actually have promised previous dude exclusivity, since she hasn't suggested to Uber either. So it may well not be cheating as such.

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:11 am

Datawolf · Post by **Datawolf** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:31 pm

ubernoob wrote:
sabs wrote:well but he's not the previous boyfriend. He's the current boyfriend, and Ubernoob is the Other Man.
She has been pretty explicit about the fact that she doesn't have a boyfriend.

Fair enough. My latent misanthropy causes me to assume the worst about people. As long as everyone is being honest with each other it should all work out for the best.

Recommended reading.

sabs · Post by **sabs** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:38 pm

But does her Ex boyfriend know that

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:23 pm

I think the point is that she never had "a boyfriend." She was (and is) seeing this other guy, but he isn't and never was her boyfriend. Just as Uber is her date but not her boyfriend.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, although obviously Other Guy has gotten more attached than desired. If she can't cut him off when it becomes a problem for him, that's bad, but otherwise it's all good.

Neeeek · Post by **Neeeek** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:49 am

fbmf wrote:
Juton wrote:
Urban Dictionary:Neg wrote:A light insult wrapped in the package of a complement. Used by pick-up artists to gain and maintain the attention of women who possess uncommon beauty (9+). These women are immune to standard complements.
The classic neg

pua - "you have beautiful nails, are they real?"
(9+) -"not really"
pua - "Oh, I guess thats still cool"

pua - "that's really cute, your nose wiggles when you speak"
(9+) -"no it doesn't"
pua - "ha ha, there it goes again, sorry, its just really cute"
These are hilarious when some PUA tries them on a woman who knows how PUAs operate.
Bolding mine.

The first is a light insult, the second is you being condescending, which is insulting.

Hmm. I find this concerning, because the second thing (the first line, at least) is something I would totally say. If it was true.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:12 am

Neeek,

I don't object to the ones FBMF posted as nearly as much as the ones I did. That said, I think that line isn't something that's never right to say, it's just not right as a pickup technique. Like, you can tease your friends about their cute mannerisms, but some woman in a bar is not your friend. Most women I know would feel very uncomfortable if a complete stranger started commenting on their facial tics.