The Gaming Den

Kaelik wrote:Do you see any part of what you quoted in which it says "select"? No, so then how is that wrong. Instead, since gaining bonus feats doesn't require meeting pre reqs, and using doesn't require meeting pre reqs, how is that false?

This part is seriously up for debate. The English language offers you a number of ways to say the same thing, and D&D notoriously refuses to use consistent keywords to describe game concepts. It is not safe to assume that because you are seeing a different English word that the author is describing a wholly separate process. It's also not safe to assume that it refers to the same process. But even more importantly? Select is a word we introduced in this conversation: the SRD frequently uses the word "gain" to begin with, exactly like in the rogue entry.

SRD wrote:A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.

You Lost Me wrote:So if I made a "monster" that was actually a human with class levels (since they do stuff like that in the MM), and I wanted a bonus feat but didn't have the prerequisites, I could just give it to myself because the Monster Manual says so? I mean, that's RAW right?

? No. The MM says that creatures (PC's are already creatures!) who already have bonus feats do not need to meet the prerequisites to use them. There is no description for how a creature acquires such feats. Things in the monster manual acquire them by virtue of having them written in their stat block already, in the same way elves have low-light vision by virtue of having it written in their features. Your elf doesn't get +1000 strength or "a million bonus feats" because you write them on the character sheet.

DSMatticus wrote:But even more importantly? Select is a word we introduced in this conversation: the SRD frequently uses the word "gain" to begin with, exactly like in the rogue entry.

No, we didn't introduce it, the feat section entry on prerequisite introduced it, where it says:

"You must meet the prerequisites in order to select or use a feat."

From the errata file? Ok, that's an official ruling from WOTC. So, sure, I was 100% wrong about the application of bonus feats in 3.5. I apologize for calling/insisting better rules knowledge than I posses was wllful ignorance.

Regarding bonus feats in Pathfinder, all of this language has been eliminated and the most obvious items have been altered. War Domain doesn't grant Weapon Focus. Weapon Finesse no longer has a +1 BAB prerequisite, so they can leave it on smaller creatures as a bonus feat without worrying about whether that prereq is met.
The wording for prerequisite has been changed to you must have this to take the feat. (no separation between select and use at all.)

All references to bonus feats ignoring prerequisites have been expunged, except in the case of specific classes (Ranger,Monk).

Seems like maybe Bulhman had this discussion with someone and decided to tweek it in that way he has.