[Dom3] Draft: Etimhara Victorious

[Zinegata]

I'm not surprised to see someone take the Mictlan Tribal King, but I am surprised to see him selected sixth.

I'm confused. Did you expect him to be picked later, or earlier?

Sooner I'd think. I was expecting him to be snapped up fairly quickly.

The choices in this phase basically boil down to a morale-booster troop carrier (Winnah's choice), thuggables (my choice), or specials (i.e. Tribal King).

I'd think that chaff-making is useful enough to make it a fairly high on the draft, but admittedly players value different things. Given that several people got "thug" choices before me I expected the Minotaur Lord to be already snapped up, but I managed to snag him anyway.

[Korwin]

General: Spider Lord 887 (Machaka)

[Username17]

I thought about the Tribal King. Spending turns to gain units is a cool feature that remains fairly useful throughout a game.

However, I go last in the priest draw, so outside of my prophet I'm not assured of having a basic comander that can boost morale. It's always a concern for me in the first few turns of expansion with a regular/starting army.

There are a lot of priests in the Commanders draw and capital-only draw, including some pretty rocking Level 3 Priests (like the High Inquisitor and the Archtheurg). So I figured that people who really wanted thugs would just grab a self-blessing priest thug like the Consort or the Jotun Jarl, and if they felt they needed a stronger priest just grab one of the many many priest mages available (from the Grand Master to the Priest King). I mean, he's capital-only, but the Priest King is actually cheaper than the Lizard King for the same Holy 3, but he's also a nature mage with a 10% chance at getting magic in one of five paths and can rustle up slaves if he needs to.

There are, in short, a lot of ways to get decent priesting in any of the four remaining leader slots, if for some reason you think it's vitally important. Which of course it wouldn't be if you selected archers in your third and fourth troop slot such that your starting army was all ranged attacks and didn't make morale checks you wanted them to pass.

Bottom line: I expected the Mictlan Tribal King to go second. He would have been my first choice if the Ilithid Lord hadn't offered the whole "can recruit magic troops in slots 3 and 4" deal that gives me a potential out from being screwed on the troop draft in a couple of ways.

-Username17

[Shiritai]

Traitor Prince 444 (Rlyeh) for my own general.

Not much left to choose from, so it was a toss-up between that and the Shuten-doji.

[Korwin]

Ear of the Lord 895 (Machaka)
Thats the spy one, right?

[Username17]

Ear of the Lord 895 (Machaka)
Thats the spy one, right?

Yes it is.

Nimtir drafts: Coral Queen 112 (Atlantis)

-Username17

[Akula]

I thought about the Tribal King. Spending turns to gain units is a cool feature that remains fairly useful throughout a game.

However, I go last in the priest draw, so outside of my prophet I'm not assured of having a basic comander that can boost morale. It's always a concern for me in the first few turns of expansion with a regular/starting army.

There are a lot of priests in the Commanders draw and capital-only draw, including some pretty rocking Level 3 Priests (like the High Inquisitor and the Archtheurg). So I figured that people who really wanted thugs would just grab a self-blessing priest thug like the Consort or the Jotun Jarl, and if they felt they needed a stronger priest just grab one of the many many priest mages available (from the Grand Master to the Priest King). I mean, he's capital-only, but the Priest King is actually cheaper than the Lizard King for the same Holy 3, but he's also a nature mage with a 10% chance at getting magic in one of five paths and can rustle up slaves if he needs to.

There are, in short, a lot of ways to get decent priesting in any of the four remaining leader slots, if for some reason you think it's vitally important. Which of course it wouldn't be if you selected archers in your third and fourth troop slot such that your starting army was all ranged attacks and didn't make morale checks you wanted them to pass.

Bottom line: I expected the Mictlan Tribal King to go second. He would have been my first choice if the Ilithid Lord hadn't offered the whole "can recruit magic troops in slots 3 and 4" deal that gives me a potential out from being screwed on the troop draft in a couple of ways.

-Username17

Fundamentally, there just isn't much that a no magic leader can bring to the table. While you could get a flier, they don't have much value unless you plan to draft some flying units as the commander shuffling with no troops won't do much. Similarly you could get a thug, but their are like 2 better thugs at least in the priest only slot, and quite a few in the mage and cap only slots. Thug drafts in this round bring like nothing to the table. Really, Frank got the only good pick this round because it means he has a few extra options when making his later picks because he has a commander that can lead magic beings.

The secret here is you will still move troops around the way that everyone, that isn't raiding, moves troops around unless they are braindead: indy commanders. You won't waste fort turns recruiting these guys if you want to win. So the only worthwhile consideration is what functions best as an initial army leader and province defense commander. Frank got the only guy that has any increased functionality in those roles.

I will be extremely surprised if anyone drafts my ideal nation this game.


I think that you guys might want to make a new thread for this kind of talk though, your draft might move faster if you were only using this thread for drafting.

[Tador]

Abmlis Takes the lizard king (177 C'tis) to Spread the only one Message.

[Zinegata]

Similarly you could get a thug, but their are like 2 better thugs at least in the priest only slot, and quite a few in the mage and cap only slots.

Well, the reason why I snagged the Minotaur Lord was because he's the only guy in the draft so far with Berserker, which is a useful answer to some specific problems (particularly Awe and Fear). And given how Berserk works, it has to go to the no-magic thug.

I don't really have illusions that he'll see a lot of use, and he's not really someone you build an army around. But I was picking 7th and the top 2 were already gone, so when given the choice between a slightly better troop-shuffler (who might never get built due to cost issues) and an actual possible "answer" to an Awe/Fear based SC / thugs, I decided to go with expanding our tool kit.

We already have a troop shuffler anyway because of our first pick

[angelfromanotherpin]

Strangely tempted by the Minister of Rituals; their special events are not part of the nation.

However, I'm actually going with the Seraphine 204.

Stealthy flying leadership and priest? Take that, Black Harpy!

[Zinegata]

Time for something cute.

Eye of the Lord 896 (Machaka)

[Username17]

Time for something cute.

Eye of the Lord 896 (Machaka)

This is some sort of taxation plan?

-Username17

[Zinegata]

Time for something cute.

Eye of the Lord 896 (Machaka)

This is some sort of taxation plan?

-Username17

Possibly. I at least have experience running a taxation plan when I did LA Man . (Albeit we don't really have nice forts...)

It still depends on everything else that gets drafted of course, but given the H3s are already taken I decided to go for something less conventional.

[Winnah]

The mod template I posted is just that, a template. I can fill in the correct units and test or play around with different strategies in my own time (if I have the time). I figured I may as well put it up for other people's convenience as well.

The fort types, apart from the starting capital city, are all low administration, cheap and have a 3 month build. If the final mod drafted by Frank has these settings, I won't be complaining. Nor do I care much if those settings are altered, providing everyone shares those settings.

[angelfromanotherpin]

While you could get a flier, they don't have much value unless you plan to draft some flying units as the commander shuffling with no troops won't do much.

You are high, sir. Redeploying your leadership at speed is moderately useful, but it's far from all that flight brings. A flying commander can lead forest troops through forest and mountain troops through mountains and fast troops across open ground - no matter what mobility options the troops I choose have (except amphibious) I have a commander who can actually keep up with them. Flying commanders can also ferry gem restocks to your field mages with great efficiency. There's a *lot* of good to be had out of flying commanders just on their own.

The secret here is you will still move troops around the way that everyone, that isn't raiding, moves troops around unless they are braindead: indy commanders.

Indy commanders are terrible and there's no guarantee you'll be able to get them in a location you care about in a timely manner. Sometimes the majority of what you get is shamans, barbarian chiefs, high-rescost mounted commanders on low-resource farmland, etc. etc. and the few useful indie commanders spawn out of provinces that are inconveniently placed - and share their recruit slot with indie scouts you also want.

I think that you guys might want to make a new thread for this kind of talk though, your draft might move faster if you were only using this thread for drafting.

I'm pretty sure that drafting is slowed solely by time zone shenanigans.

[Akula]

You are high, sir. Redeploying your leadership at speed is moderately useful, but it's far from all that flight brings. A flying commander can lead forest troops through forest and mountain troops through mountains and fast troops across open ground - no matter what mobility options the troops I choose have (except amphibious) I have a commander who can actually keep up with them. Flying commanders can also ferry gem restocks to your field mages with great efficiency. There's a *lot* of good to be had out of flying commanders just on their own.

None of that is worth not recruiting a mage. The good thing about flying leaders *and* troops is that you can bypass choke points and hit the rear areas of an enemy, moving moderately faster inside your own borders isn't much of a deal. Gem ferrying can be accomplished by indie scouts with a little bit more planing.

Indy commanders are terrible and there's no guarantee you'll be able to get them in a location you care about in a timely manner. Sometimes the majority of what you get is shamans, barbarian chiefs, high-rescost mounted commanders on low-resource farmland, etc. etc. and the few useful indie commanders spawn out of provinces that are inconveniently placed - and share their recruit slot with indie scouts you also want.

This is the middle era, indy commanders are everywhere. I have never had a problem getting all the indy commanders I need for army leadership. Regardless of the potential difficulties, you make it work because you need mages.

I'm pretty sure that drafting is slowed solely by time zone shenanigans.

Before this is over I expect that at least one pick will be slowed down because someone misses a post and isn't sure if it is their turn.

I don't really have illusions that he'll see a lot of use, and he's not really someone you build an army around. But I was picking 7th and the top 2 were already gone, so when given the choice between a slightly better troop-shuffler (who might never get built due to cost issues) and an actual possible "answer" to an Awe/Fear based SC / thugs, I decided to go with expanding our tool kit.

As long as you know just what a longshot the choice is man. I mean, PD in this game is going to be so nuts (like 6 decent guys per point) that I don't see a no magic no bless thug working out unless they are geared very heavily; someone can spend 50 gold on 10 pd and then put one mage behind it and probably end the low end thug.

[angelfromanotherpin]

None of that is worth not recruiting a mage.

Yes, but you can't always recruit a mage from every fort every turn. Most mages need labs. Some need Temples as well. Some are too expensive to spam everywhere. And some just don't do what you need done right now.

[Shiritai]

For Huichan, Minister of Rituals 804 (Tien Chi).

[K]

Jotun Gode 275 (Jotunheim)

[DrPraetor]

Now I really wish I'd taken the storm general, because I could take the Jarl! But if I'm not going for a bless the Raphaite General is a better thug anyway.

Monk 60 (Man)

[Akula]

Yes, but you can't always recruit a mage from every fort every turn. Most mages need labs. Some need Temples as well. Some are too expensive to spam everywhere. And some just don't do what you need done right now.

If your fort doesn't have a lab and temple, you screwed up if you need those for mage recruitment. If you don't draft a mage that can be recruited widely without problems, you drafted poorly. Even then, a spy or a scout is probably better than a commander.

I cannot fathom a situation where a no magic general will do what you need right at that moment if a mage couldn't do it. All they do is lead troops.

[Winnah]

I could take the Jotun Jarl...

But I'm going to need a stealthy leader if my other selections pan out.

Friar 148

[Tador]

my choice is Mictlans Starspawn if possible.

[Korwin]

You have the First pick, shure its possible

[Winnah]

R'Lyeh has 2 units named Starspawn.

332 has Astral 3, Water 1 and some random magic.
333 Has Astral 1, Holy 2 (priest) and some random magic.