OSSR: Master Race's Handbook

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Libertad
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Post by Libertad »

Slade wrote:Have you mentioned the book says Grey Elf slavery of other isn't wrong yet or did I miss that part in this discussion?
I think Frank used the wrong choice of words. It's less "employment" and more "we live to serve you."
Complete Book of Elves wrote:In order to maintain their cities, they must rely on "lesser" elves for the upkeep of their realms. Since most all of these servant elves have been brought up in the particular atmosphere of the grey elves, they believe that their lot in life is to serve the grey elves. Although some do leave, most do not have the spirit to do so. Many are truly happy performing tasks for their masters and would not dream of departing. The stratified society offers them security and comfort.
It's not wrong because the servants are brainwashed from birth! It's not brutal and cruel, like the whips and chains practiced by those barbaric non-elves!

Seriously, though, this part really creeps me out. The Complete Book of Elves has a place in my games... as an in-character treatise written as nationalist propaganda.

Oh, and the author later apologized for the book... due to the imbalanced game mechanics. Not a single word of the flavor text was mentioned.
Last edited by Libertad on Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:59 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Post by Desdan_Mervolam »

Red_Rob wrote:
OgreBattle wrote:
name_here wrote:Except that the Wood Elves don't traditionally put out signs saying "Wood Elf Territory, do not enter, use of lethal force authorized."
neither do bears and vipers, and both animals are neutral.
Why are wood elves so texan anyways? It's not a tolkein thing as far as I know.
Animals are non-sentient and therefore get a pass on violent survival instincts where intelligent creatures don't.

A trapdoor spider makes a hole and hides in it, then ambushes things that come near it for food. A ogre makes a lair in an area and then ambushes passers by for food. The reason the ogre is evil and the spider isn't is that the ogre could talk and reason with other intelligent beings, and obtain the things it needs to survive without killing sentients, plus it understands the suffering it causes when it kills. A spider simply kills for food or to defend itself because it has no other options.

And I thought Wood Elves being antisocial assholes had some basis in Tolkien? ambushing a non-threatening group including an elf and a Ranger at bowpoint certainly suggested to me they weren't the friendliest sort.
It's also worth mentioning that in ages past animals and so forth, particularly predators, actually were widely considered evil. Particularly things like spiders and snakes which kill with poison. Hence in folklore wild animals having a connection to witches and vampires and soforth.
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Post by GâtFromKI »

infected slut princess wrote:Elves are gay.
They aren't just gay, they are gayer than you.
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Post by Prak »

Started working on a bee people race. Open to suggestions.
obvious WIP is obvious.
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Post by wotmaniac »

everyone knows that elves cause cancer
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Post by OgreBattle »

Why would anyone who LIKES ELVES write this shit, why would someone who thinks ELVES ARE COOL write them as insufferable british white-mans-burden [EDITED]?

That's what boggles me, how the fuck could anyone write this and not realize it is a parody? That's fucking insane. This is insane.
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Post by Ancient History »

I take it you've never read the Wraeththu RPG?
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Post by Maxus »

OgreBattle wrote:Why would anyone who LIKES ELVES write this shit, why would someone who thinks ELVES ARE COOL write them as insufferable british white-mans-burden [EDITED]?

That's what boggles me, how the fuck could anyone write this and not realize it is a parody? That's fucking insane. This is insane.
It's a case of Mary Sue-ism. Making the coolest, most bestest race evar, and society and abilities "befitting" them.

Christopher Paolini, the author of Eragon, is a vegetarian atheist. So elves are vegetarian atheists. The hero becomes a vegetarian atheist. And the evil guy in the Peaceful Peasant Village is a butcher.

Anyway, back on topic.

Thinking about it, the Elven language making it impossible to sound native unless you're raised to it--that's believable from a linguistics standpoint, but coming with all that elf wank, fuck that shit.

It sounds like someone thought the humming lanugage in Dune was awesome and included it in Elvish.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.

--The horror of Mario

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Post by Slade »

Maxus wrote:
Christopher Paolini, the author of Eragon, is a vegetarian atheist. So elves are vegetarian atheists. The hero becomes a vegetarian atheist. And the evil guy in the Peaceful Peasant Village is a butcher.
Wait, the hero becomes a vegetarian atheist? :ugone2far:
I've never read past first book.
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Post by name_here »

Yeah, he does. Curiously, his atheism persists past him contacting the mind of a dwarven god.
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Post by rasmuswagner »

Slade wrote:
Maxus wrote:
Christopher Paolini, the author of Eragon, is a vegetarian atheist. So elves are vegetarian atheists. The hero becomes a vegetarian atheist. And the evil guy in the Peaceful Peasant Village is a butcher.
Wait, the hero becomes a vegetarian atheist? :ugone2far:
I've never read past first book.
Funny, my reading of the series came to an end when Eragon and the dwarves arrived at the elf place.
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Post by K »

Ancient History wrote:I take it you've never read the Wraeththu RPG?
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Post by codeGlaze »

I liked the Eragon books, but some of the decisions he has the character make are... annoying. The elves in particular annoyed me with their overall poor decision making.

The French connection makes me lauvh because my friends and I turned elves into French fops in one campaign.
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Post by Darth Rabbitt »

I was in a game where all the races of Elves were deranged mutants banded under an evil god known as VIN, and with his three generals leading them (the most heavily mutated, although they were considered the most charming, graceful and beautiful amongst their people).

So they were the campaign villains, and my character was a Thri-Kreen Ghoul named Kra'ag'ik (usually shortened to Kraagik) who had his clan recently destroyed by the elves (his people had long been their enemies,) only spared their fate by a necromancer (who was working for the elves, actually; long story)

So he fucking loved killing and eating elves (Thri-Kreen are said to have a taste for elves in the old 2e books, and also he was a ghoul) and everyone was OK with this (presenting severed elf ears was a show of bravery in the setting.)

Pretty much any other race was tolerated in the setting because none of them could do anything as dangerous as the elves, even if they were really evil themselves, and everyone realized that infighting amongst the other races is what allowed the elves to grow so powerful.

Probably the most fun game I've ever played in.
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Post by Maxus »

The best Elf-player I ever saw was someone who played a Venerable Elf Wizard, and had him floating on a permanent floating disc to get around.

He chose to act deaf and basically sounded like Hamish from the Silver Horde.

"We're gonna stop the evil guys!"

"WHAT?"

"STOP THE EVIL GUYS!"

"YEAH, LET'S TOP IT OFF!"

Or some similar non-sequiteur.

He did magic just fine, though. The player knew the Spells That Fucking Kill People.

And for really tough battle, he had...

...a longbow.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.

--The horror of Mario

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Post by Red_Rob »

codeGlaze wrote:The French connection makes me lauvh because my friends and I turned elves into French fops in one campaign.
You're not the first to make that leap.Flintloque filtered the Napoleonic wars through a fantasy lens, with French Elves, German Dwarves and English Orcs. The background was kind of fun, but the system is terrible.
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Post by Slade »

name_here wrote:Yeah, he does. Curiously, his atheism persists past him contacting the mind of a dwarven god.
That is NOT atheism...I'm not sure the word, but I defined atheism is the belief they don't exist.

Not that they "don't deserve respect" version.
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Post by Omegonthesane »

Slade wrote:
name_here wrote:Yeah, he does. Curiously, his atheism persists past him contacting the mind of a dwarven god.
That is NOT atheism...I'm not sure the word, but I defined atheism is the belief they don't exist.

Not that they "don't deserve respect" version.
According to Wikipedia, alatrism is the word root for "don't worship gods even though they exist". The page only covers the idea that worship doesn't work, rather than the idea that they are not worthy of it, however.
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Post by K »

I'm pretty sure that you can be an atheist and accept that there are beings who claim to be deities.

Not accepting that there is any being that meets the conditions of being a deity (ie is sacred, supernatural, etc) seems consistent with atheism. I mean, anything in the world has limits and can be understood, and thus is no longer supernatural.

So meeting a powerful being claiming to be the god of dwarves renders it no longer supernatural, thus it cannot be a deity and can't challenge atheistic beliefs.
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Post by OgreBattle »

Maxus wrote:
OgreBattle wrote:Why would anyone who LIKES ELVES write this shit, why would someone who thinks ELVES ARE COOL write them as insufferable british white-mans-burden [EDITED]?

That's what boggles me, how the fuck could anyone write this and not realize it is a parody? That's fucking insane. This is insane.
It's a case of Mary Sue-ism. Making the coolest, most bestest race evar, and society and abilities "befitting" them.
But it's just done soooo poooooorly!!

You look at real Master Race propaganda and y'see it focuses on making the Aryans look really great as the benevolent keepers of civilization, while making the untermensch look really degenerate and awful. So even calling this the Master Race handbook is an insult to actual propagandists who succeeded at their job. This shit reads like Protocols of Zion, which was made-up propaganda meant to make their supposed writers look like insufferable assholes.

It's just infuriating that writing could be so socially retarded, I don't have enough angry emotes to express it
:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:


*well, today I found out TGDMB actually censors certain words.
Last edited by OgreBattle on Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by tussock »

@Ogrebattle: I like Elves when they're being insufferably stuck-up about how awesome they are, while also being mechanically really good. That whole thing where they could totally just kill all of everything if they put their minds to it, but choose to leave us to our poor, pathetic little lives instead.

Like, elves that aren't pretentious, and are kinda lame mechanically, and just happen to live a moderately long time while maybe hugging a tree now and then, like in 3e, who gives a shit? Does anyone like 3e elves?


That 50-years to take up vengeance thing, well, you have to consider colour combinations carefully you know. It's all too easy to look dangerously fabulous among the lesser races. And if Orcs don't live that long, it's fine, because one can just kill all their clan, which is only fair. Perhaps worth getting a few levels first, maybe take up Wizardry, only take a decade more. No hurry.
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Post by codeGlaze »

Red_Rob wrote:You're not the first to make that leap.Flintloque filtered the Napoleonic wars through a fantasy lens, with French Elves, German Dwarves and English Orcs. The background was kind of fun, but the system is terrible.
I liked warhammer's Russian Dwarves.
tussock wrote: That 50-years to take up vengeance thing, well, you have to consider colour combinations carefully you know. It's all too easy to look dangerously fabulous among the lesser races. And if Orcs don't live that long, it's fine, because one can just kill all their clan, which is only fair. Perhaps worth getting a few levels first, maybe take up Wizardry, only take a decade more. No hurry.
:rofl:
Last edited by codeGlaze on Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Username17 »

Sorry folks, I was in Moravia. There was a village festival, where we dressed up in costumes and ceremonially buried a cello and went trick or treating for booze. I almost ended up dressed in the town's ceremonial bear outfit and forced to drink all the booze and dance with all the women, but I narrowly missed that honor/obligation and merely drank most of the booze. Noone got put in a wicker man and lit on fire, so I think we're OK. For now.

Brief replies before I get back to the review:
  • Kuo-Toa do in fact just sit in their hidden domains and murder stab anyone who comes into it, and they are supposedly as evil as they come. So claiming that Wood Elves are any different is just... weird.
  • I didn't call attention to the Grey Elves' really creepy society where social engineering has forced everyone of the low castes to accept a life of menial labor, because while the writing style is a bit on the creepy side that is actually par for the course in D&D. Any society that has hereditary leadership and also crap covered farmers must logically have hereditary underclass, and those divisions must be maintained by social engineering or force of arms or both. Since virtually every society in D&D land, "good" or "evil", has hereditary leaders and also underclasses, every society has to be doing something horrible to keep that status quo. Every. Single. One. The Grey Elf line where they use heavy handed propaganda to keep everyone in line, but at least they guaranty all their casteless underlings a roof over their head and a place inside the city walls, that's one of the best deals the crap covered farmers get in any D&D society of any nominal alignment. The thing which is bullshit is actually the High Elves and Sea Elves, where there are kings and queens who are born into the roles, and a majority of the population are crap covered farmers - but supposedly everyone is self actualized and doing whatever they want to. That is some seriously fucked up shit. How the fucking hell have the Sea Elves managed to self actualize everyone and have a majority of the population decide that they want to do menial labor tending kelp beds in shark infested waters all day as a commoner?
Anyway, what we're actually here for is the blatant powergaming and madness that is Chapter 10. So here it is.

Chapter 10: Character Creation and Kits

This chapter is not like the ones before it in that it does not begin with in-character fiction at all. No, this chapter is all crunch. And it starts with the Random Elf Table. This is possibly the most useless thing I have ever seen in my entire life. You roll a d100, a d8, a d20, three separate d6s, and a d3. And then each of these dice spits out a result that is evenly distributed among the possibilities for an Elf. So your d8 gives you an equal chance of encountering an Elf Thief as it does of having you encounter an Elf Fighter/Thief. Fighter/Mage is mysteriously on that chart twice, but I think that is probably a typo because triple class is not on there at all.

Not enough can be said of how crazy this chart is. It gives an equal chance of you encountering a Drow or a High Elf or a Sea Elf. This is so fucking insane that even the book seems apologetic and says the DM should modify as necessary for terrain. That being the case, why are Sea Elves on that chart at all? They don't leave the water, and no one else breathes fucking water! The only bit on here that is even weighted is the die roll to determine alignment, and that doesn't change its weighting dependent upon what kind of Elf you are encountering. So the Random Elf Table spits out the same alignment spread for Grey Elves (LG), Wood Elves (N), High Elves (CG), and Drow (CE). What the shitfuck? Although the best part is the part where you roll a d6 for personality and get one of the six available choices: Compassionate, Cruel, Haughty, Frivolous, Proud, and Obsessed. Note that Haughty and Proud are basically the same thing.

Then it gives you the page worth of Elven bonuses. It is important to note that things in 2nd Edition AD&D are crazy, so Elven perception bonuses are phrased in terms of an enhanced chance of finding a secret door, but even in that context this shit is weird. This book not only has all the crazy stacks of bonuses that Elves actually get in 2nd Edition, it right here adds some more. Apparently they can now have specially made Elven Bows that allow them to add their Elvish Bow Training to damage rolls, and they also get to turn invisible in natural surroundings. Just to make sure that I hadn't forgotten some of the crazy that was the 2nd edition AD&D Elf bonuses, I checked that against the PHB. Nope: was not there. This book just fucking makes up extra extremely powerful abilities for Elves to get for free. This is on top of the other extra powers it suggested in Optional Rules and Elven Physiology. I don't even know what game they thought they were writing for.

Then it talks about the various Elvish subraces, and how to go about playing them. Remember that this is the 2nd Edition rules, so that races not only have stat modifiers, they also have allowed stat ranges. So while Aquatic Elves have an Intelligence penalty, they also have an Intelligence minimum. You dump stat Int, but you can't all the way dumpstat Int, because it's 2nd edition and shit is crazy. The Drow have a Charisma penalty, but also a Charisma minimum, again because shit is crazy. Drow also have an experience penalty, where you multiply the XP required to reach each level in each class by 1.2. This is the most irritating and ineffectual way to pay for additional character power I have ever seen.

But it gets worse, because Grey Elves pay for their heaping helping of overpowered crazy by having you multiply the XP values at every line in the chart by 1.15. Yes, really. So if you're a Grey Elf Ranger, in order to get to 2nd level you would normally need to have 2,250 XP. But because you're a Grey Elf you need 2,587.5 XP, and I haven't the faintest idea what the fuck happens to the fraction. Note that Grey Elves don't actually have any powers worth mentioning, they just have stat modifiers that are ridiculously awesome if you happen to be a Wizard (+2 Intelligence). So you would never, ever consider being a Grey Elf Ranger even if it didn't turn your XP progression into a kaleidoscope of agony and despair. If you were going to play a Ranger you would be a Wood Elf. Because they get a Strength bonus. And being a Wood Elf doesn't cost you any XP at all, although it tells the DM to punish a Wood Elf player for bad roleplaying by docking the XP they actually get if they aren't a raging asshole to everyone they meet. How this is supposed to be at all conducive to playing a cooperative storytelling game I have no idea. Playability does not seem to be much of a concern with this book.

But then we get to the Kits. This is where the shit really hits the fan. There is one kit for Priests. It lets you flawlessly identify plants in your chosen terrain at level 5. No one fucking care. There are no less than 3 kits for Warriors, and we still don't care. One of them gives you a free Griffon to ride around on at level 6, but only after you take a year off from adventuring to acquire it, at which point you will have presumably missed the entire campaign. One of them allows you to make crude traps out of wood and vine and forbids you from adventuring with the other player characters if they want to enter cities or dungeons, which they do. The only one you'd actually take is the Archer, because that basically lets you trade your Elven to-hit bonus with Longswords away for a rate of fire increase with bows. Firing 3 shots a round at first level before you even dip into the extra bullshit in the optional rules is what passes for real ultimate power in 2nd edition AD&D. It reminds you that the Elven Minstrel kit exists, which is the Elven option to play a Demi-Bard. But in "the interest of saving space" they ask that you go buy the Complete Book of Bards if you want to actually see those rules. Because fuck you.

What really sets this book apart though is that there are kits for multiclassed characters. As a Mage/Thief, you can be a Spellfilcher. That's a special kit that gives you a bunch of magic detection and the ability to suppress magical traps. Note: this is 2nd edition, where Thieves were expected to go on point because they could find traps, but were absolutely powerless against magic traps, which was most of the high level traps, so the ability to actually do anything about magic traps was paradigm breaking in that it involved Thieves who weren't completely useless at their job at mid levels. Never to let a decent idea go without shitting on it, this book then announces that as a pure RP thing, characters with this kit are all part of a guild that won't let them go on adventures with the other player characters. Again, I have no idea how the author thought these rules should be "played" considering how many cockblocks there are to actually participating in the adventure with other player characters.

There are other multiclass kits that simply don't matter. As a Fighter/Thief you can take a penalty on talking to strangers for some minor bonuses to your Thief Skills. As a Fighter/Mage/Thief you can move stuff around in ways that are too complicated to even describe and you don't care. As any class at all you can announce that you are an "Undead Hunter" now, which like every other Undead Hunter kit I've ever seen, mostly involves you signing up to get your face punched in by a Specter.

But all that pales in comparison to the main Fighter/Mage kit: the Bladesinger. Note, we are no longer talking about "bladesingers", we are talking about "Bladesingers". With a capital B. The "B" is for "Better than you". There's also a War Wizard who is better than you, and that doesn't even matter because the Bladesinger is more better than you. First of all, before even getting into the kit itself, the section says that Elven Fighter/Mages can cast spells in any "elven made" or "magical" armor. That means you can get platemail up in this bitch, which is way better than the "only mithril chainmail" that the losers trying to use the PHB get to contend with.

The Bladesinger trades away all his weapon proficiencies except the Longsword. He doesn't even get the +1 to-hit with a bow for being an Elf. In exchange they get bonuses to... everything. Attack, Damage, Defense, Special Attacks (reduce the penalty for any special combat maneuver), Special Defenses (bonus Parry each round), all get bonuses. Quite large, and level scaling bonuses. They can cast their spells not only in armor but can explicitly cast their spells one-handed and in melee. It's just all around superior with no real drawbacks to speak of.

Next up: Chapter 11: Elven Equipment. This is where we get to more familiar ground of explaining how Elves have stuff that is better than your stuff.

-Username17
Last edited by Username17 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Korgan0 »

What's with the cello burial?
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