The Gaming Den

Monster weaknesses don't effect passive effects or discipline bonuses. Dracula in Sunlight can still:

• Live forever without hunger, breath, disease or old age.
• Bounce knives off his literally steel-hard abs.
• Walk around with a refrigerator under each arm without apparent effort.
• Hold extended conversations with bats, rats, wolves and snakes.
• Suck people's blood to regain expended power points.
• Predict the weather for a year and a day in advance.
• Sit around as a corpse until nightfall, when he can rise from the dead with Restoration.
• Make use of Soul Investments created in prior scenes (or off camera) to enter a host.

Killing him in Sunlight would still be incredibly difficult for a normal human, but fairly straight forward for even a moderately experienced Witch or Werewolf. It's the making him stay dead part that's difficult. Restoration can be prevented by beheading him or by throwing rice at the corpse, but Soul Investment pretty much requires that you go track down his hosts and kill them. Whether you do this ahead of time or after the fact is up to you, but it needs done.

Grek wrote:Killing him in Sunlight would still be incredibly difficult for a normal human...

Indeed. In addition to all the other relevant factors involved, wood weaponizes rather worse than iron or silver.

Iron (or, rather steel) bullets are fairly standard... indeed, they're starting to replace lead bullets, for environmental reasons.

Silver bullets are harder... silver isn't particularly easy to work with, and so you'll either need to deal with a gunsmith who has some non-standard tools, or buy from someone already in the know.

Wood bullets, on the other hand, are basically unheard of, mostly because wood is a spectacularly terrible material with which to make a bullet. There's an urban legend about wooden bullets used by the Nazis, on account of how they would 'splinter and cause infection', but these were likely to be training blanks, possibly fired in desperation by forces which were out of normal ammo.

Fortunately, given that you're only really looking to use wood as a magical material, you can still just load wood pellets into a shotgun shell or something, in the same sense as you might use salt or sand. The shotgun really is the swiss army knife of the modern monster hunter, since you can have special bullets to handle every eventuality you'll run across.

“We're going to kill Dracula.” He said it calmly as if the thing he had said wasn't completely insane. “For good this time. Dracula is going to be killed and he is not going to come back.”

Marionette was skeptical but intrigued. “Certainly,” she noted noncommittally “people have tried before. Even among vampires he is considered to be an immortal. He has powerful sorceries, powerful allies, and of course...”

“He's a vampire to begin with.” The old man cut her off and pulled a notepad from his pocket. “As long as his heart has not been neutralized, he can be grow a new body with the setting of the sun. But so long as his body lives, he can grow a new heart.” Marionette was about to interrupt when he anticipated her objection and continued “Yes, Dracula's mastery of the Harrowings of Flesh are such that his heart and body are separate. Destroying either with wood or seeds weakens him, but in the dark of night either can restore the other.”

The challenge had taken the form of a puzzle, and now Marionette was an active participant. “So that gives a clear time limit. The vampire lord must be taken down during the day and the heart must be located and destroyed before the sun sets.”

“Would that it were that easy. His soul has been split and sequestered into seven bestial servants. All would need to be destroyed to remove him from this world.” The paper was now possessed of nine word balloons connected with arrows.

“And what of his allies? They've brought Dracula back before, there's little doubt they'd do it again.” Marionette well remembered the Circle incident.

“Aye. We have to assume his allies include a powerful necromancer. Once the ghost of Dracula is fully formed, it can and will be summoned and a new body provided. Dracula is well aware of where his ghost will form and has built a fortress in the Deep Gloom around it. That will have to be assaulted and overrun before the full moon next rises.” Both looked at the paper. It was covered with symbols.

“We're going to need more Belmonts.”

A monster hunter doesn't make wood bullets. They get a crossbow and make wooden bolts. For that matter, a monster hunter can make silver or iron tipped bolts too. The other advantage to bows or crossbows is that, while they aren't silent as Hollywood likes to think, they are substantially quieter than guns.

Indeed, and it's easier to boost a melee attack pool than a ranged attack pool and just swing a wooden great weapon (dam 5), or even an oversized section of tree (dam 6N).

FrankTrollman wrote:“We're going to need more Belmonts.”

Shit, now I want to play After Sundown: Symphony of the Night

I've been playing that for the first time on the Xbox Arcade.

I can see why it's remembered so fondly.

I've also been playing Lords of Shadow 2. Like the story and scenes so far, not 100% on the gameplay.

/off-topic

Is that the "What is a man?" one?

Koumei wrote:Is that the "What is a man?" one?

Yeah.

Mind, Lords of Shadow 2 had him toss the line out. And throw a goblet on the floor after he emptied it.

FrankTrollman wrote:“We're going to need more Belmonts.”

Midnight_v wrote:That was awesome, and you are awesome . Looks like they're going to need more Belmonts. ROFL

Fuck yeah Frank, Fuck yeah. I thought no one was reading the shit I was posting at all.

I'm am motivated, now! Will post more.

Alright, so here's a thing: Backgrounds.

Right now they're exposition skills, knowledge skills, and sometimes they also fill in as social qualifications.
[*]They're how you move the plot from one scene to the next when you don't know what to do directly as a player. If you have a clue, or even if you don't have a clue, you make a Background check of some kind and then the MC gives you some new info that lets you decide what you should do next.
[*]Backgrounds sorta imply that you have actual knowledge, but they also say that mainly you go and look stuff up, or you ask people, or you secretly ask people. There's not a very clear distinction made between "things you know" and "things you could know very quickly".
[*]There's not really a resource for "You have an actual medical license" (maybe Science?) or "you have a legal degree and have officially passed the Bar Exam", but you just sorta take a bunch of Doctor or Lawyer background points and fudge it.

So, it seems like we should get a rule for Backgrounds in terms of making a check to know a thing on the spot vs making a check to go find out a thing. It could be a simple +0 to +2 threshold, depending on how "common" knowledge a thing would be among your background, or something like that. It's important because sometimes your character might need to have access to a detail right away during a scene; such as noticing that something is amiss and danger is about because of background knowledge about how the environment "should" be, or knowing a particular special fact about a negotiation that changes what you should really be bargaining for, etc etc.

Also, we should maybe get a Resource category for licenses and qualifications? The rating would be based on how much they let you do without others looking into it much, I suppose.

Endovior wrote:
Fortunately, given that you're only really looking to use wood as a magical material, you can still just load wood pellets into a shotgun shell or something, in the same sense as you might use salt or sand. The shotgun really is the swiss army knife of the modern monster hunter, since you can have special bullets to handle every eventuality you'll run across.

I like to give my characters a .410 Judge as their wandering around gun, especially if their Combat skill is higher than their Athletics skill--you can always load it with rock salt for dispelling purposes even if you intend to bring something heavier for planned fights.

I dunno man, the very first sentence of that article in the 'Effectiveness' section says "Shot shells in .410 bore are not considered especially effective in personal defense;"

I am not concerned--the first rule of internet gun articles is that the only citations they feature will go to other, even more poorly sourced internet articles. With few exceptions, gun sites are the human centipede of the internet.

More seriously, I'd keep in mind that light pistols in After Sundown feature damage codes on par with knives and aren't all that terribly deadly, so the gun would have to be pretty wimpy not to fit in.

Would alternative XP systems be an idea? My group loudly dislikes the randomized card mechanic, to the point of avoiding the system specifically because of it.

virgil wrote:Would alternative XP systems be an idea? My group loudly dislikes the randomized card mechanic, to the point of avoiding the system specifically because of it.

The first thing that pops into my head is, "after each session, each player gets X minor arcana and Y major arcana of your choice", where X and Y are integers that you can vary at any time as you deem appropriate.

I mean you could just make a BP system kind of thing:

Skill Points: 2 karma each
Backgrounds: 1 karma each
Resources: 2 karma each
Languages: 1 karma each

Stat Points: 6 karma each
Edge: 5 karma each
Basic Magic: 4 Karma
Advanced Magic: 6 Karma

I'm considering running an AS one shot tomorrow night, and figured I'd take a look at what was being talked about in this thread again just in case anyone winds up a witch, and I wanted to pick up an old point-

FrankTrollman wrote:

I think we can also branch out on the weaknesses, a bit, at least so that a "guy what is made of stone, or coated in steel" isn't taken down by a sharp stick.

That I disagree strongly with. Having a fixed and small number of weaknesses is very important. Monster hunters in source material don't run around with a dozen weapons in a golf bag, but if you expand the number of weaknesses creatures could have, player characters totally would do that.

No, the most well known monster hunters in modern pop culture run around with a weapon filled trunk:

Which is of course uncouth, the most well known monster hunters before them stored all their weapons in tasteful wall plaques and cabinets:

Of course, the government sanctioned ones can afford more:



But, sure, if you go back a few hundred years, sure, monster hunters could carry all their tools in a briefcase:


I mean, unless they had a long trip of monster hunting ahead of them-


Well... and this is ignoring the monster hunter lineages...

---

Ultimately, it's Frank's game, and he can write it however he wants, and I can always houserule shit I want different. All I'm saying is that the "golfbag full of weapons" is in fact a genre convention, and, indeed, exactly what I saw happen in the one game of AS I got to play.

I think that you golf bag of weapons is just a symptom of preparedness. It could be a briefcase, a trunk, a carriage or covered wagon, or even a house. Unless most monsters only have 2 or 3 weeks this is between them, Monster Hunters are going to need a variety of tools.


Logically I think most will only travel with a few tools at any given time. Those are going to be tools used for the monster they are currently focused on and maybe tools to deal with monsters associated with their current target.

Edit: please spoiler those pics.

Because my players demanded that I post my ideas here instead of letting them sit neglected in a text file...

New Animate Types (For Realz This Time):

Bogeyman (Astral):
Authors often say that a character can take a life of its own. In the world of After Sundown, this is more true than they might imagine. A bogeyman is created when a character out of folklore or urban legend turns into something more than mere fiction. As a campire tale come to life, a bogeyman naturally has the power to cause nightmares and to personally appear in them, and to leave lasting marks of their presence behind. Empowered by mortal imagination, the bogeyman waxes strong as mortals tell tales of them and wanes as they are forgotten. In order to retain their strength, a bogeyman must ritualisticly dictate their story to a mortal, forcing them to write it down, memorize it or otherwise create a record their existence. Although these tales need not be factual, certain key traits or events must be present in the telling, particular and personal to the bogeyman's myth. Unlike most Animates, the bogeyman is prone more to wrath than to loneliness, and has a Master Passion of Rage.

Power Schedule: Ritual

Starting Powers:

• Mesmerism
• Suggestion
• Patience of the Mountains
• Hide From Notice
• Dream Vision
• Vigor
• Horrid Reality
• Denial of Privacy

Distinctive Flaw: Distinctive Appearance


Gargoyle (Infernal):
On occasion mortal creation is abandoned to be destroyed by the elements. Though most such objects simply wither away, a rare few (most often a statue, but sometimes a building or even a particularly old household object) are touched by a confluence of infernal power and creeping ruin. Refusing to succumb to decay, these rare individuals cling to existence and eventually to life, awakening as gargoyles as the power entropy suffuses them. Each gargoyle has an inherent connection to the forces of decay and can command objects around them to break, people to fall ill and convictions to crumble. In accord with the gargoyle's fundamental nature as an object rather than a person, each gargoyle must spend an hour or two remaining absolutely motionless in order to recover its power points.

Power Schedule: Ritual

Starting Powers:

• Abyss of the Body
• Light of Ennui
• Mask of a Thousand Faces
• Wrath of the Gremlins
• Patience of the Mountains
• Clinging
• Aura of Decay
• Flesh of Marble

Distinctive Flaw: Anachronism


Homunculus (Orphic):
Sometimes an attempt at resurrection fails after the original soul is destroyed or imprisoned. Sometimes a vampire will pour blood into a cooled corpse, trying in vain to restore it to life. Sometimes the powers of death rage out of control of a hapless cultist. At best, such flawed attempts at necromancy merely fail. At worst, something inhuman answers the summons from deep in the Gloom and inhabits the corpse instead. The homunculi that result from such failures are invariably terrified and violent, trying to escape both their creator and the horrors in the darkness from which they escaped, often lashing out with fist, shadowed tendril of acidic blood in the process. At once a disappointing failure and the new owner of a body their creator hoped to either revive or put to use, the homunculus almost never has a amicable relation with their makers. As creatures of the Gloom, homunculi must steal life and health from others to sustain themselves. They can regain power points only by soaking themselves in blood. Unlike the vampire, who must drink blood fresh from the vein, the homunculus does not require that their blood to be particularly fresh, or even human, only that there be plenty of it and that it hasn't yet dried out.

Power Schedule: Ritual

Starting Powers:

• Shadow Casting
• Eyes of the Night
• Revive the Flesh
• Vigor
• Gift of Health
• Sensory Damper
• Blood of Acid
• Solid Darkness

Distinctive Flaw: Diplomatic Incident

Gargoyles need to be creatures, not objects, and they need to have a Lunar power schedule, and they need to look like this:



I will accept nothing less.

What makes a Homunculus neither a Frankenstein nor an Android?

Thematically, they're the unfavoured child. Their creator either wanted one person in particular (the person they were trying to resurrect/turn) or they wanted an obedient slave. Instead, they got someone who is their own person, and the creator can't undo that or force things to have happened differently. Compare the Frankenstein, who is a child created to be a full adult, then abandoned out of disinterest or an Android, who is created as an idealized replacement person and is at least nominally successful in that role.

Mystically, a Homunculus is sentient clump of darkness out of Mictlan inhabiting a human body, whereas Frankensteins are either new people created in a lab in the image of man, or a human luminary who's brain has been inserted into a new body. It's not entirely clear in the supernatural community if Homunculi are ghosts stealing possession of another human's body, psychic imprints of human suffering or the "native" inhabitants of the Gloom finally showing their metaphorical faces.

Mechanically, a Frankenstein is physically powerful and has strong active defenses. What it can't scare off with Repel, it can dodge with Celerity and what it can't dodge it can usually soak by pumping a lot of Vigor. An Android is a non-conventional socially power, able to win logical arguments via their Descent of Entropy powers and emotional arguments via Devastation and intimidation. The Homunculus is more preparation focused. Homunculi blood can be used to heal, strengthen, give power points or melt walls, encouraging them to store it up and pass it out to allies. Its other powers are more effective if there's lots of shadows to look out of or darkness for the tentacles to hide in.

Yeah I'm not convinced you can make a new type of animate and have it work. They are based on human relationships gone horrible wrong, so making a new type requires a new relationship to base them on.

Also why can't gargoyles just be Golems with flight, that's totally legit starting character already.

Grek wrote:Thematically, they're the unfavoured child. Their creator either wanted one person in particular (the person they were trying to resurrect/turn) or they wanted an obedient slave. Instead, they got someone who is their own person, and the creator can't undo that or force things to have happened differently. Compare the Frankenstein, who is a child created to be a full adult, then abandoned out of disinterest or an Android, who is created as an idealized replacement person and is at least nominally successful in that role.

Isn't "obedient slave" the Golem thing?

And Androids are not "nominally successful" replacements, at least in romantic roles, as demonstrated by their "Distinctive Flaw: Doomed Romance"