Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:55 pm
Fucking shit. We found someone dumber than Kaelik, and I think Kaelik is a failed parody of Shadzar who makes up positions to believe in to start arguments.
Welcome to the Gaming Den.
http://www.tgdmb.com/phpBB3/
That's because Antifa practices direct action. It's not a political party in any capacity. The only "arguments" they're out here making are ones like doxing, no-platforming, mutual aid, punching nazis in the face, and saving Dr Cornel West's life.The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:Y'know, I never see leftists bring up Antifa completely unprovoked. Ever. Even people who are totally "members" of that loosely affiliated group of edgy internet people. I never realized that until just now, but why is that?
Funny you should bring up that post, because it is ignorant to the point that I almost registered an account over there to make this observation: GameDaddy spewed out several hundred mostly irrelevant words about German history without noticing the difference between Arian and Aryan. He is an illiterate and nothing he says should be taken at face value.deaddmwalking wrote:There was a good post explaining to the peanut gallery about the origins of the term and how it is derived from the Roman Empire. Reposted in spoiler block form:
GameDaddy wrote: Good to see you posting here in your own self-defense. Until today I was unaware there was any controversy over Adventurer, Conqueror, Kings. Looks like a version of D&D too me.
As far as I know, the ancient Germans were not about white supremacy. In fact they were simply about not allowing barbarian invaders and slavers to invade Germany and take their women and children and goods away. Arminius was captured as a child in a Roman raid into Germany by the Romans when they crossed the Rhine at Xanten, and he was taken captive to Rome as a young boy. He grew up and became a classically trained cavalry commander, and became Varus' chief scout. When Varus invaded Germany again in 9 a.d. Arminius united the German clan leaders, and they deliberately lured the Roman legions deep into Germany, then ambushed them at Tuetoberger Wald. All of the Roman Eagles fell, Two were captured, and one was deliberately concealed in a bog.
It would be two decades before Roman Legions crossed the Rhine again, and they retaliated, and continued pillaging until about 275 ad
Some recommended additional reading for you;
Teutoberg Forest 9 AD
https://ospreypublishing.com/teutoburg-forest-ad-9-pb
Around 355 ad, in an attempt to escape from the invading Huns that came from the East, the Germans crossed into Roman territory. The Romans attempted to drive them back but in AD 378 the Ostrogoths and Visigoths were able to defeat them at Adrianople in the East. The Romans were now forced to do a deal with the Goths who were given permission to live within the borders of the Roman Empire under their own rulers. In return, the Goths agreed to serve under Roman officers in order to prevent further invasions. The Germans became angry though when the Romans passed a law in AD 370 prohibiting marriage between Romans and themselves. The Germans also felt they were not being treated as equals in the army.
Alaric, a Visigoths leader, took part in several campaigns under the Romans. However, when he did not receive the expected promotion in the Roman Army, he led his people against the empire. Alaric now demanded that the Visigoths should have their own independent state. In AD 410 Alaric's army was strong enough to enter Rome. Roman slaves joined with the Visigoths in sacking the city. With the slaves joining his army, Alaric now had 40,000 men at his disposal. After roaming around the Roman Empire, the Visigoths eventually decided to settle in Aquitania.
The Vandals, under the leadership of Gaiseric, also created serious problems for the Romans. With the support of the Alans, the Vandals entered Africa from Hispania in AD 429. Although, like most invading armies, the Vandals did not do damage to property in Africa, they had mainly come to settle and not to destroy. Roman writers, who were extremely hostile to their Arian form of Christianity, were mainly responsible for the Vandals' undeserved reputation for destroying anything to do with civilization.
The Vandals were good seamen and they were now in a position to control the Mediterranean. After taking Sardinia and Corsica, Gaiseric invaded Italy in AD 455 and spent fourteen days ransacking Rome.
The Romans tried to obtain revenge, but the two vast fleets they sent to Carthage were defeated by the superior Vandal navy. Although there were only about 80,000 Vandals, of which only about 20,000 were fighting men, they ruled the six million people in Roman Africa for the next hundred years.
Arianism didn't come from, or originate in Germany, It came from Rome. Arianism, in Christianity, the Christological (concerning the doctrine of Christ) position that Jesus, as the Son of God, was created by God. It was proposed early in the 4th century by the Alexandrian presbyter Arius and was popular throughout much of the Eastern and Western Roman empires, even after it was denounced as a heresy by the Council of Nicaea in 325 ad. It remained the dominant theological stance in Germany though, until the formation of the Holy Roman Empire shortly after 800 ad. The Holy Roman Empire was Catholic, and lost favor in Germany in the late 1400's due to the corruption within the church that favored the wealthy over the masses. Martin Luther was excommunicated in 1519 and formed the Protestant Church.
The Thirty Years' War was a war fought primarily in Central Europe between 1618 and 1648. One of the most destructive conflicts in human history, it resulted in eight million fatalities not only from military engagements but also from violence, famine, and plague. Casualties were overwhelmingly and disproportionately inhabitants of the Holy Roman Empire, most of the rest being battle deaths from various foreign armies. The deadly clashes ravaged Europe; 20 percent of the total population of Germany died during the conflict and there were losses up to 50 percent in a corridor between Pomerania and the Black Forest.
Initially a war between various Protestant and Catholic states in the fragmented Holy Roman Empire, it gradually developed into a more general conflict involving most of the European great powers. These states employed relatively large mercenary armies, and the war became less about religion and more of a continuation of the France–Habsburg rivalry for European political pre-eminence.
The Dutch Republic enjoyed contrasting fortune; it obtained independence from the Holy Roman Empire and also from Spain (which had directly controlled the Dutch lands despite it not being part of the Holy Roman Empire) thus concluding its 80-year revolt against Spain. It subsequently enjoyed a time of great prosperity and development, known as the Dutch Golden Age, during which it became one of the world's foremost economic, colonial, and naval powers. The Thirty Years' War ended with the Treaty of Osnabrück and the Treaties of Münster, part of the wider Peace of Westphalia. The war altered the previous political order of European powers. The rise of Bourbon France, the curtailing of Habsburg ambition, and the ascendancy of Sweden as a great power created a new balance of power on the continent, with France emerging from the war strengthened and increasingly dominant in the latter part of the 17th century.
This balance of power remained relatively unchanged within Germany until after World War I. Then the old order of Protestant and Catholic Aristocrats were replaced by the young socialists of the National Socialist party (The Nazis). It was they that reintroduced Arianism along with white superiority into national German religion and politics, and made these key elements in the reformation and rebirth of Germany after the defeat in WWI, and the economic collapse shortly thereafter in the late 1920's.
Interestingly, the majority of Germans abandoned Arianism and white superiority after the defeat of Germany in 1945, just about as quickly as they had adopted it between 1933-1936, in favor of their previous religions of Protestantism and Catholicism. However it was adopted by Caucasians of many other nationalities around the world, after WWII. England, France, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Romania, and the United States all have right wing Arian white supremacist political factions well established in each country.
To say that Germany is an Arian white supremacist state is simply ridiculous, although there is a strong right wing white-supremacist political party that is strongly anti-immigration and xenophobic, and this group composes at present approximately 20% of the population of Germany.
Why is everyone all getting worked up about ACKS anyway?
It was relevant to the term arianism, but hey, if he's wrong, I'm sorry. The point I thought he was making was that the Romans developed the philosophy that led to the Nazis, so saying 'my game is based on the Roman Empire' isn't the defense he thought it was.Mord wrote: I don't know why you think that anything in GameDaddy's old man ramble has any relevance to the historical context of the term "fascism."
There are a lot of tells in GameDaddy's rant that he doesn't know what he's talking about. The big one obviously would be when he described the Nazis as 'socialists' which is just like... wow. But the more fundamental issue is that he's conflating Arianism (the belief of a non-trinitarian god) and Aryanism (the belief in the importance of the expansion of the Aryan horse tribe). Are they being deliberately conflated? I don't know! There's no evidence that GameDaddy is sufficiently aware that words that sound similar can mean different things to say one way or the other.deaddmwalking wrote:It was relevant to the term arianism, but hey, if he's wrong, I'm sorry. The point I thought he was making was that the Romans developed the philosophy that led to the Nazis, so saying 'my game is based on the Roman Empire' isn't the defense he thought it was.Mord wrote: I don't know why you think that anything in GameDaddy's old man ramble has any relevance to the historical context of the term "fascism."
What I do know is that the Hitler considered the Nazis the 3rd Reich; the first being the Holy Roman Empire, which itself worked pretty hard to associate itself with a connection to Rome. So saying the Nazis derived a lot of their symbolism directly from an emulation of Imperial Rome wouldn't be wrong.
That whole thing always struck me as deeply weird. Where the fuck did that idea come from and why would white supremacists believe in it?FrankTrollman wrote:He was however an Aryanist, in that he had the belief that Germanic tribes were descended from the same horse nomads that conquered India and also swept across Europe and became the Celts.
19th century racism is really weird. The fact that there's human evolution has caused people to freak out and also people are starting to do linguistic comparisons and try to categorize human features to try to figure out who is related to who. Remember, these people didn't have 23&Me or whatever, they were trying to work it all out from superficial connections Qanon style.The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:That whole thing always struck me as deeply weird. Where the fuck did that idea come from and why would white supremacists believe in it?FrankTrollman wrote:He was however an Aryanist, in that he had the belief that Germanic tribes were descended from the same horse nomads that conquered India and also swept across Europe and became the Celts.
Emphasis mine.Sacrificial Lamb wrote: and has absolutely nothing to do with Frank chimping out
Oh, and let's also not forget that the (alleged) shooter was only nominally what you would call "white". He was actually Latino and Jewish. Oh, and before you start screaming at me for saying this, and using neo-Marxist terms like: "Nazi, anti-Semite, racist, terrorist, white supremacist", and other such bullshit....I'll mention that I'm ethnically Latino and Jewish myself. So spare me your bullshit.
Actual ethnically Jewish person* chiming in here to say that I never in my life heard of a Jew claim that 'anti-Semite' or its derivations are a neo-Marxist term; not even ones who are assimilated into mainstream society and not as keyed into the culture and religion. It's not only factually wrong (the term has 19th-century origins in a German bigot's writings), it mirrors far-right talking points claiming that words like "racism" are just made up to smear innocent people.What do you mean by "Nazi"? I am ethnically Jewish, and have Jewish family members. I went to synagogue as a child, I had a Bar Mitzvah, and I have a Hebrew name. I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what you mean, when you use terms like "fascist" and "Nazi". My Jewish father was a soldier in World War 2, in the "Battle of the Bulge". He recently died, and it hurt....very badly.
Is that something you could do Blicero? It seems like domains has come up quite a bit over the past little bit with frank's thread about domain rules. IT couldn't hurt to see how those rules are.amacris wrote: In the event Blicero from Gaming Hub reads this:
....Since you think that domains and mass combat is the game's killer app, I'd like to extend to you an offer to preview the revised Axioms issue 3, which has the most extensive and detailed domain and economics rules I have published to date. I think you'd give it a thorough assessment.
I suppose Blicero could do that, but I'd recommend against it - if only because Macris has made the offer and probably thinks that there is some value to be extracted from it. At best, it's a fig-leaf for the company he keeps; at worst, it's actively helping him to market his product and make him some money.tenngu wrote:So uhhh I guess to get this thread back onto a course I guess....
Is that something you could do Blicero? It seems like domains has come up quite a bit over the past little bit with frank's thread about domain rules. IT couldn't hurt to see how those rules are.amacris wrote: In the event Blicero from Gaming Hub reads this:
....Since you think that domains and mass combat is the game's killer app, I'd like to extend to you an offer to preview the revised Axioms issue 3, which has the most extensive and detailed domain and economics rules I have published to date. I think you'd give it a thorough assessment.
Mussolini was even more direct about it. To the extent that he destroyed real ancient Roman archeological sites because they were in the way of the fake Ancient Roman Empire thingy he was setting up. While there's a lot worse that he's done, that one is even against his stated goals.deaddmwalking wrote:What I do know is that the Hitler considered the Nazis the 3rd Reich; the first being the Holy Roman Empire, which itself worked pretty hard to associate itself with a connection to Rome. So saying the Nazis derived a lot of their symbolism directly from an emulation of Imperial Rome wouldn't be wrong.
They also believed that their ancestors were from Atlantis and had links to the Himalayas, inspiring any number of works of fiction back in the long lost days when Nazis were the go-to bad guys. And to think, I used to complain that that was lazy and not relevant anymore.The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:That whole thing always struck me as deeply weird. Where the fuck did that idea come from and why would white supremacists believe in it?FrankTrollman wrote:He was however an Aryanist, in that he had the belief that Germanic tribes were descended from the same horse nomads that conquered India and also swept across Europe and became the Celts.
Yes. Remember that they could have just stayed laser focused on the idea that it's almost impossible to prove a direct connection between promoters of extremist thought like Milo and individual stochastic terrorist acts that are motivated by extremist thought that the mean things I said were overreach and that I was a scaremongering hatemonger. That would have totally kept me on the back foot, because while connecting the dots between purveyors of hate speech like Milo and actual mass murders like the Gilroy Garlic Festival Attack is easy, proving that those dots are connected is hard. Especially if you have disciplined denial in depth on the other side willing to cross their fingers behind their backs and performatively disavow each terrorist attack in turn. They could have quite plausibly got me stammering while producing mountains of weak evidence while they pretended to be shocked and offended that anyone would compare them to "those criminals" or even cherry pick some whataboutisms by claiming that some specific mass murderers were leftists - there's a mass shooting every 22 hours in the US this year, so I'm sure they could find a few that don't fit the profile of misogynistic racist white man.SeekritLurker wrote:I took a look over there. Just a quick look.
And the amount of disingenuous nonsense is... yeah, wow.
There are a variety of reasons. Some think regresseives will be on the winning side and thus hope joining them will let them be spared. Others realize that there is money to be made in the ‘token minority who tells it like it is’ businesss that right -wingers love to point to to show their supposed diversity. And some like Milo Yiannopoulos or Nicholas Fuentes had only tangential connections to their minority culture and could pass for white to some degree. Some had negative experiences with the political left and thus presume what they heard about the right should be reassessed. And some I suppose want to watch the world burn; or belong to a minority group themselves but hate another group that fascists also hate in hopes of some ‘common goal.’ Like the short-lasted alliance between the Nation ifIslam and the American Nazi Party.Thaluikhain wrote:While we are at it, what's it with all the "I can't support Nazism, I'm an X" when X is someone legitimately at threat from Neo-Nazis?
There seems to be a lot of people who'd be genuinely and personally at immediate threat should the neo-Nazis get more active, who are trying their best to help them.
(Not people saying that they can't be in league with Nazis because they are "Mediterranean". Presumably they are hoping people forget that Spain and Italy exist)
Libertad has a good list started but I think that there are few things that should be expanded upon. Why do they say crap like that well it could be becuase:Thaluikhain wrote:While we are at it, what's it with all the "I can't support Nazism, I'm an X" when X is someone legitimately at threat from Neo-Nazis?
There seems to be a lot of people who'd be genuinely and personally at immediate threat should the neo-Nazis get more active, who are trying their best to help them.
(Not people saying that they can't be in league with Nazis because they are "Mediterranean". Presumably they are hoping people forget that Spain and Italy exist)
It is also important to note, from a historical standpoint, that Irish and Italian folks became white by becoming enforcers and promoters of anti-black racism, culturally and by joining enforcement organs (i.e., the police.)souran wrote:Libertad has a good list started but I think that there are few things that should be expanded upon. Why do they say crap like that well it could be becuase:Thaluikhain wrote:While we are at it, what's it with all the "I can't support Nazism, I'm an X" when X is someone legitimately at threat from Neo-Nazis?
There seems to be a lot of people who'd be genuinely and personally at immediate threat should the neo-Nazis get more active, who are trying their best to help them.
(Not people saying that they can't be in league with Nazis because they are "Mediterranean". Presumably they are hoping people forget that Spain and Italy exist)
a) They are lying. Its the internet so how are we ever going to check somebodies ethnic background? Lying is really useful because it not only helps them make points now but it muddies the waters in the future because they can use other accounts or have people point to them as why they are not racist.
b) Wealth is basically an ethnic class all its own. Seriously, the wealthy have more in common with each other than they do with their nominal racial groups and high levels of wealth have a lot of the same cultural imprinting effects that being part of a ethnic group does at lower wealth levels. Additionally, wealth also can make people feel immune to the sort of radical actions proposed by the far right while obviously fearing the radical actions proposed by the far left. This has always been the case, one of the early financiers of the Nazi party was Erik Jan Hanussen, a jewish born "psychic". By the time of the rise of the Nazi party he was extremely wealth and gave them a large number of significant donations and loans. He figured this would keep him safe with the new regime. Eventually, he was considered an embarrasment to the party and somebody thought he, if we kill him we won't have to pay back his loans! So they did.
c) Racism is stupid and petty and can't decide what white is. It would not surprise me to find Jewish Nazis in the US because ethnically Jewish people in the US typically look like generic white dudes. One thing that I think is really funny is how American White supremacists are all currently in love with Russia and Putin. Their Fathers didn't consider Slavs to be people much less white people. Seriously, in racist asshole circles slavic people didn't become white till after the end of communism at the earliest. However, while racism has expanded to be more inclusive (that is probably the most ironic part of this whole thing) it always resorts to being exclusionary as it gets its way. As I noted above Slavs were not white till the 90s, Greeks were not white till the 80s, Italians where not white till the 50s, Catholics where not white till the 40s, and the Irish where not white till the 20s. These guys will start turning on these groups in an attempt to narrow down "whiteness" once its convienent. You litterally cannot meet the requirements they will set if they decide its convienet to exclude you. If you dont' think this has happend before, then consider that George Lincon Rockwell (founder of the american nazi party) was killed by one of his own followers. The guy was of greek heritage. So he "looked" white and kept getting admitted to the Nazi party. Then somebody would look funny at his last name and through him out for being "not white". There are a lot of people who will find out that they were "white" when it was time to vote racists into power, but not "white" when it comes time to set up rules for keeping them there.
That, and very conservative Catholics or people who are Latinx Uncle Ruckus. I've got a bunch of coworkers (another division) who sit around spouting infowars and anti-immigrant stuff all day long, and half of them are darker-skinned immigrants from Mexico.SeekritLurker wrote:Among Latinx, of course, there is a separate track of racism, with 'light skin' and 'I'm Spanish' being a huge part of it, and that particular intersection is where you find the Latinx willing to join up.