Best System for Dragonlance?

[Captain_Bleach]

In my pre-Tome games, I had Heal convert 1d4 points per rank of lethal damage over to nonlethal. It could only be used once per day per person. Of course, this brings up the interesting dilemma of characters suddenly falling unconscious after the first aid due to having a higher nonlethal total than their current hit points, but I just explained that "people feel tired and groggy after surgery."

[Username17]

If it's converting lethal to nonlethal it will never make you pass out if you weren't already unconscious.

-Username17

[Captain_Bleach]

Overall, how would that system work for the Heal skill in your opinion, Frank?
Knowing you, it would probably be "It is not balanced/sucks."

[Username17]

1198017539[/unixtime]]Overall, how would that system work for the Heal skill in your opinion, Frank?
Knowing you, it would probably be "It is not balanced/sucks."

It's incomplete. While it makes the Heal Skill better, it doesn't make large numbers of ranks any better. The basic problem of Heal has already been elucidated. Noone really cares about anything it does past level 4 or so, and interestingly enough by that point your skill bonus is probably big enough that you don't fail those checks. So you stop putting ranks in.

Introducing more low level uses will make the skill better at low levels. And frankly, it could probably use being better at low levels. But it's still going to be a skill which people will abandon later in life.

I mean heck, I regard that Runelord class that someone was throwing around as underpowered. And by 16th level he'll be dumping a mass heal every round by naming himself as one of the targets and reabsorbing the spell. There's not much the Heal Skill can do to compete with that.

Frankly at low-mid levels it should allow you to preserve corpses so that they can be raised longer in the future. At high levels it should just fucking raise the dead.

-Username17

[Captain_Bleach]

At certain ranks, it should replicate certain spell effects, mostly healing. I will try to make it more complete for you to review, Frank. The DC for the Heal check to replicate a spell is DC 10+double the spell level (0-level is DC 11). All checks take 10 minutes per spell level. Material components for spells are still the same price, but instead of incense and holy/unholy water, it is medical supplies.

At 4th level, the lethal-to-nonlethal die per rank increases to a d6, a d8 at 8th level, and d10 at 12th level.
At 1 rank, you can once a day per person replicate Cure Minor Wounds at a caster level equal to your ranks in Heal -3.
At 4 ranks, you can once a day per person replicate Cure Light Wounds or Gentle Repose at a caster level equal to your ranks in Heal -3.
At 6 ranks, you can once a day per person replicate Cure Moderate Wounds, Restoration, Lesser, or Remove Paralysis at a caster level equal to your ranks in Heal -3.
At 8 ranks, you can once a day per person replicate Cure Serious Wounds or Remove Poison/Disease at a caster level equal to your ranks in Heal -3.
At 10 ranks, you can once a day per person replicate Cure Critical Wounds or Restoration at a caster level equal to your ranks in Heal -3.
At 12 ranks, you can once a day per person replicate Raise Dead, or Break Enchantment at a caster level equal to your ranks in Heal-3.
At 14 ranks, you can once a day per person replicate Heal (uncapped), or Greater Restoration at a caster level equal to your ranks in Heal-3.
At 16 ranks, you can once a day per person replicate Resurrection at a caster level equal to your ranks in Heal-3.


How do these look, Frank? I think that I made the Heal skill way too powerful, but with Use Magic Device, it may not be as much compared to that skill.

Edit: Mass spells can only be done once a day, not once a day per person.

[Maxus]

At 20 ranks, you can once a day person replicate True Resurrection at a caster level equal to your ranks in Heal-3.

That is just INSANE, man. Skills are things you can do without magic, and True Resurrection lets you bring someone back from the dead without a corpse, or with a seriously mutilated corpse.

I think it's safe to say that no amount of healing knowledge will let you replicate that effect.

And the "Replicate Mass Cure" series shouldn't be per-person. I can see being able to replicate a Mass Cure effect once a day, but not where you get one Mass Cure for every person in the party!

Edit: It's a cool idea, and one I'm suggesting in my current game. But the time really should be more than one-round. First you have the fight, *then* you patch everyone up. Something like a minute to replicate a spell.

[Voss]

Once a day? Basically you saved the cleric some wand charges and some higher level spell slots if the combat went horribly wrong. But you'd probably go retreat and rest for a day or two anyway so you could raise, heal and then recover real spells. Oh. Once a day per person. Weird from a mechanics perspective. The mass spells don't make much sense, but they suck anyway.

I'd add some flexibility in. Restoration spells and break enchantment are almost always going to be more important than Mass Cure Light/Moderate/and possibly Serious Wounds.

But then, Mass Cure Light is nothing short of insulting.

[Captain_Bleach]

1198027672[/unixtime]]Once a day? Basically you saved the cleric some wand charges and some higher level spell slots if the combat went horribly wrong. But you'd probably go retreat and rest for a day or two anyway so you could raise, heal and then recover real spells. Oh. Once a day per person. Weird from a mechanics perspective. The mass spells don't make much sense, but they suck anyway.

I'd add some flexibility in. Restoration spells and break enchantment are almost always going to be more important than Mass Cure Light/Moderate/and possibly Serious Wounds.

But then, Mass Cure Light is nothing short of insulting.

What would you suggest I do to make it better? And be as harsh as you want, I'm used to your writing style now. I do not hold myself to the incredibly high standards of politeness anymore; I'm going to act more like a pirate!

[Voss]

Honestly I don't think its too horrible. Once a day per person is rather awkward, but part of that is just that I dislike per day abilities as they are now.

Basically, I'd just shove it into a 'non combat only' thing (or require concentration checks in combat if you really want the drama) and allow people to be tended once each after each encounter. Maybe snip the purely supernatural effects like True Rez and Regen. Maybe keep raise dead. CPR!

Ditch the Mass spell stuff. It doesn't make much sense, and they're pretty crappy spells. Maybe require Magical Elf Leaves (or something expensive and Positive Energy aligned, or whatever macguffins of healing you like) for the more impressive effects.

Tie the levels and ranks a bit closer together so the spell effects are actually level appropriate.

For the hit point cures, just use the curative portion (and nothing else) of the heal spell at the caster level you've got (but uncap it. 23 ranks should heal 200 points of damage. I don't give a rats ass that heal stops at 150). So, with 4 ranks, you'd cure 10 hps, at 12 ranks you'd cure 90 hps. And this would be in addition to whatever other effect you are going for- restoration, break enchantment, the rest of the heal spell (maybe limit it to one affliction)

Each day you can try to affect old wounds and conditions once. Maybe make the check take a bit longer. 6 seconds is an impressive amount of time to even notice all of someone's injuries. Call it 10 rounds, or 5 minutes or something. 10 rounds could be interesting, because then you could do some combat triage, particularly with it provoking AoOs and requiring a concentration check for environmental conditions (or someone stabbing you).

[Captain_Bleach]

I've taken your considerations into account, Voss. Thanks.

Also, the Heal variant in Dragonlance War of the Lance does not need the Heal skill to be used; you can substitute Craft (Alchemy) or Profession (Herbalist). As to why, I do not know.

[Voss]

Easy- they want to give as many options as possible to compensate for the giant hole left in the system by not having clerics. Without magical healing, the entire bloody system goes to shit. And yet, they somehow thought that Dragonlance would be a good idea (even if you're coming out of module one with a cleric in the party).

[Captain_Bleach]

Back to my healing system:
What minimum ranks required would you recommend for the effective spells?

[Voss]

I'd just tie them to the cleric spell levels so they are level appropriate. So, if the cleric gets lesser restoration at third level, make the skill rank requirement 7.

You might want to make the heal skill a class skill for more people too. It would give the fighter something to do out of combat, after all.

[Captain_Bleach]

Lesser Restoration is available at rank 6. From what I checked in the SRD, they are all at the Cleric spell level. I will consider making Heal a class skill for the Barbarian, Fighter, and Rogue.

[Voss]

Oh. Right. Math error.

Need more sleep and it isn't coming any time soon.