The Gaming Den

FrankTrollman wrote:People are simply used to loving the spell because it was so brutally effective in AD&D land.

This makes a lot of sense, dropping slow on fools in Baldur's Gate was pretty boss.

Magic Missile is pretty good in Baldur's Gate. It casts almost instantly and the low HPs of things in 2e mean that going from red health to dead is almost a certainty. Knowing the rough HP levels of monsters makes small amounts of guaranteed damage a valuable thing for finishing powerful monsters that you are kiting.

K wrote:Magic Missile is pretty good in Baldur's Gate. It casts almost instantly and the low HPs of things in 2e mean that going from red health to dead is almost a certainty. Knowing the rough HP levels of monsters makes small amounts of guaranteed damage a valuable thing for finishing powerful monsters that you are kiting.

Also it could interrupt longer spells, and each missile negated an imagine from Mirror Image, so a single cast could wipe all the images and do 2 damage, and thus cancel the enemies Meteor Swarm spell.

It can still be worthwhile, but generally only if you can get it massed somehow. Continuous trap rooms can work, or mass casting.

Why is eyebite on the list?

I'm guessing because it panics or comatoses targets.

but at the level you get it, it doesn't seem that effective.

Maybe it's because it lasts multiple rounds, and you can use it as a free action (after 1st round) to debuff someone then hit them with a more debilitating spell.

FrankTrollman wrote:

Judging__Eagle at [unixtime wrote:1171931834[/unixtime]]Hmm, I like. I like a lot.

You mind if I post this up at WoTC in it's complete form?

Go for it.

A few days from now I'll give a go to hacking out the list of utility spells that make people sit up and notice.

-Username17

Necroing this with a request for this list, if it still exists.

Is this just for 3.5E or for Pathfinder, too?

I made a list of level 4-6 cleric spells that I found useful in some fashion or another, but it's Pathfinder crap.

nockermensch wrote: Necroing this with a request for this list, if it still exists.

I think this is the thread.

GreatGreyShrike wrote:

nockermensch wrote: Necroing this with a request for this list, if it still exists.

I think this is the thread.

Thanks!

CapnTthePirateG wrote:Why is eyebite on the list?

Because "sickened" is a pretty useful condition on its own, but on top of that by a single cast of the spell you can actually use it at least 3 times and its effects stack. The nice thing is that it's versatile. You can use it to completely pwn one dude or disable one dude per round.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Is this just for 3.5E or for Pathfinder, too?

I made a list of level 4-6 cleric spells that I found useful in some fashion or another, but it's Pathfinder crap.

This thread was last updated before Pathfinder came out so 3.5. Since I use 3.5 and Pathfinder interchangeably in home games, and most online games I get into are cool with allowing both, I'd very much like to see some recommendations for Pathfinder stuff. Probably best done in a new thread.

Cloud of Bewilderment before Spell Compendium was berserk. It was only a 10 foot cone, so the range sucked, but it was able to blind and stun people for 1d6 rounds and it stayed around in the area, forcing people to make saves against blinding and stunning. Absolutely brutal.

I remember QuillBlast being pretty bonkers as a 5th level spell. It would hit Huge or larger creatures with 4d6 quills, each doing 1d6 damage.

So pretty mediocre damage wise, 14d6 damage on the whole.

Nah, the main thing was that it was a 20 foot radius spread and imposed this for every quill that stuck to an enemy...

-1 penalty on attacks, SAVES, and checks per quill.

Any sort of spell that would be bonkers if it didn't have a save was used immediately by the other spellcaster to basically end the round. Imposing -10 on up to saves.

This in itself didn't end the fight, but it was such a crazy one two punch if somebody had a nice area effect spell to drop. Even something as basic as like, Quill Blast and a Stinking Cloud is a 5th and a 3rd Level spell that shuts down 80 percent of the monster manuals.

Quillblast was also reprinted in spell compendium; the penalty became noncumulative.

Spell Compendium nerfed a lot of spells but it put some goodies back in there. Not sure if it was a net positive or negative for casters, but they're the cream and the butter of the system regardless.

What spells were made better when reprinted in the SpC? I only recall unchanged reprints and nerfings, granted it has been several years since I've cracked its covers.

Darkbolt became 1 bolt per 2 caster levels, each dealing 1d8 and stunning for one round, instead of a single bolt that dealt 1d8/2CL and stunned. It also got bumped up 3 spell levels though.

Ghoul Gauntlet stopped being actively disadvantageous to cast by resetting your control limit to a stupidly tiny number.

-Username17

schpeelah wrote:Darkbolt became 1 bolt per 2 caster levels, each dealing 1d8 and stunning for one round, instead of a single bolt that dealt 1d8/2CL and stunned. It also got bumped up 3 spell levels though.

I just looked it up...

It does daze not stun. On a failed save and successful ranged touch attack roll.

So... a 5th level spell that is on the Darkness Domain. That's kind of a small niche that won't bother anyone ever. But if it's better than originally written then I grant that there were some upgrades to spells.


[edit: ah, Ghoul Gauntlet reminded me of one of my favorite spells that fucking kill people.

Ghoul Glyph. It has a 1 minute casting time, but once you get around that you have a 1d6+2 round no save paralysis. So get around casting time by making a wand of it and happy days ensue.

Insomniac wrote:Not sure if it was a net positive or negative for casters, but they're the cream and the butter of the system regardless.

Huge net positive. I don't even know why this is in doubt. If your DM only allows you to bring one or two sourcebooks to the table and you're playing a primary caster, that book needs to be one of them. If your DM for some reason lets you bring 3.5E D&D books to Pathfinder games then the SpC needs to be one of them.

Now, the SpC is tragically short on raw utility spells. Stuff as campaign-defining as fabricate and plane shift and planar binding is rare. If you wanted to play Logistics and Dragons and were only allowed a small number of books I could see that one not making the VIB list. But if your goals revolve around getting massive no-questions-asked bonuses and/or blasting the people you hate super-hard then this book has your back.

Now, I think Insomniac was referring to whether the spells themselves (not the book itself) were buffed or nerfed as a net positive or negative, and I contend negative.

But definitely their collection in a single sourcebook is a huge shortcut and power-up to dumpster diving. When I played Living Greyhawk in 3.5 era I owned two 3.5 books: Player's Handbook and Spell Compendium.

FrankTrollman wrote:Ghoul Gauntlet stopped being actively disadvantageous to cast by resetting your control limit to a stupidly tiny number.

-Username17

It still does. It just resets it to the normal value. So, fine if you haven't found any control limit shenanigans, but still crap if you have.