The Gaming Den

But I believe the practiced spellcaster feat can't increase your caster level above your character level, so you should probably only have a caster level of 10 with Ur-priest.

True that. So, is it better to go (CL wise):
Ranger 1, Wizard 4, Ur-Priest 10
OR (by applying Practiced Spellcaster to Wizard instead)
Ranger 1, Wizard 8, Ur-Priest 8?

That depends a lot on what spells you want to be casting with your wizard slots. I think you are better off with applying it to your Ur-Priest casting than to your wizard levels though. Second level spells just ain't all that useful compared to the 6th level divine spells you will be slinging. Sure, a little extra duration on Glitterdust never hurt anyone, but neither does an extra +1 on magic vestment and the likes, or an extra 2d6 on flame strike.

So unless you plan on relying on some level 2 wizard spell that I overlooked a lot you will be much better off with 2 caster levels in Ur-Priest than with 4 in wizard. And if you want to take the long-term view, eventually you are going to run out of Ur-Priest levels to take. At that point the currently wasted two points of caster level will kick in. Heck, you may find yourself getting ahead of your party in 3 levels, when you will be slinging 9th level spells, while they are still casting 7th level spells. So you might want to throw in some non-caster levels prematurely anyways.

I'm a bit confused by those options. The Ranger CL you have is 2 before modifications, and indeed this is the lowest Ranger Caster Level it is possible to have. Then you slapped Mystic Theurge onto both Wizard 1 and Ur Priest 2, bringing you to Wizard 3. And then PractSpellcaster can be applied in one of three ways:

Ranger:
Ranger 6/Wizard 3/Ur Priest 8

Wizard:
Ranger 2/Wizard 7/Ur Priest 8

Ur Priest:
Ranger 2/Wizard 3/ Ur Priest 10

The half rounds down, as it almost always does in D&D.

Note also that regardless of what caster levels you end up with, you technically have 4 class levels of Ur priest for purposes of spells per day, and a Wisdom of 16. That means you have zero 4th level spells per day. I don't know how that fits into your plans.

-Username17

Ok, I'm back and I've tweaked my build one more time. Here's the latest (and hopefully last) version...

I've stremlined it alot for ease of reference and play. As the previous build it gets full BAB, 4 SP/level and one Fighter Bonus Feat in place of each blank level (marked with an asterisk).


Frank, I've tossed out the Lasher levels since they slowed down the Kensai progression too much and since your whip rules & houserules made some of the benefits redundant or obsolete. I'm also working on the assumption that the Third Hand ability will be replaced by Use Rope checks as per your suggestion, so I maxed out the skill. Tell me if that's ok and if I can still refer to the Third Hand entry for the options avaiable (and the relative DCs) or if you prefer to whip up your own list.


Once you'll give me the all green I will finally roll the BKG knowledge checks for Tecpatl.

---

Tecpatl Coatl
Patron Deity: Huitzilopochtli (War/Sun God and special guardian of Tenochtitlan)

Kensai Fighter 6 / Kensai 10 / Tempest 4

Hit Dice: 20d10
Race: Human
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Abilities: Str 16 / Dex 15 / Con 14 / Int 13 / Wis 14 / Cha 12

lvl 01 - Kensai Fighter 1 - +1 Hit & Dam.(Whip) / Dodge, WF: Whip
lvl 02 - Kensai Fighter 2 - Combat Expertise
lvl 03 - Kensai Fighter 3 - Combat Reflexes(*) / Mobility
lvl 04 - Kensai Fighter 4 - WS: Whip
lvl 05 - Kensai Fighter 5 - +2 Hit & Dam.(Whip)
lvl 06 - Kensai Fighter 6 - Improved Trip / Skill Focus: Use Rope
lvl 07 - Kensai 1 - Signature Weapon
lvl 08 - Kensai 2 - Power Surge
lvl 09 - Kensai 3 - GWF: Whip(*) / Skill Focus: Concentration
lvl 10 - Kensai 4 - Ki Projection (1/2 Levels)
lvl 11 - Kensai 5 - Withstand
lvl 12 - Kensai 6 - Improved Disarm(*) / GWS: Whip
lvl 13 - Kensai 7 - Ki Projection (Full Levels)
lvl 14 - Kensai 8 - Instill
lvl 15 - Kensai 9 - Spring Attack(*) / Two Weapon Figthing
lvl 16 - Kensai 10 - Ki Warlord, Whirlwind Attack(*)
lvl 17 - Tempest 1 - Tempest Def. +1
lvl 18 - Tempest 2 - Ambidexterity (-1) / Improved Critical
lvl 19 - Tempest 3 - Tempest Def. +2, 2W Versatility
lvl 20 - Tempest 4 - Ambidexterity (+0)

Signature Weapon: +1, Wrathful Healing(+3)
(later I'll add Morphing(+1), Sweeping(+1) and Vicious(+1) )
(WH makes you heal a number of HP equal to 1/2 the damage dealt)

Weapons: 2 Masterwork Whips, Masterwork Whip Dagger



Skill Points: 6x4 + 6x19 = 138

---
@ 10th level

Saves: F+8 R+5 W+8

Attack: +10(BAB) +2(K) +1(WF) +1(GWF) +4(Str) +1(Enh) = +19/+14
Damage: 1d6 +2(K) +2(WS) +4(Str) +1(Enh) = 1d6 +9

Trip Attack: +19/+14 Against Touch AC
Strenght Check: 1d20 +4(Str) +4(IT) = 1d20 +8

Disarm Attempt: +19 +2(Whip) = +21/+17

SP: 78



Suggestions, comments and criticism are welcome.

OK, I'll stick with Ranger 2/Wizard 7/Ur-Priest 8.

Note also that regardless of what caster levels you end up with, you technically have 4 class levels of Ur priest for purposes of spells per day, and a Wisdom of 16. That means you have zero 4th level spells per day. I don't know how that fits into your plans.

Well, I'll either end up with a Periapt of Wisdom, or deal with not having 4th-level spells.

Yeah, that looks fine. It's actually really hard to read, since it's a 20th level build with note on how it reformats into a 10th level build. :shrug:

-Username17

I fixed the disarm attempt since I won't get Improved disarm 'till 12th level.

Yeah, the format may look confusing at first sight but I put the whole thing up so that once it's approved and once we play I can concentrate solely on the game and look up at the chart only to record the changes when we level up. The noteworth stuff for 10th level is at the end of the post, now I'll add in the saves too.

Something occurred to me: am I entitled to roll the knowledge checks, though I have no ranks in any Knowledge skill?

The rules somewhat contradict themselves on that point. On the one hand, Knowledge is a "trained only" skill. That means that you can't make a check if you don't have ranks. But the rules also say that an untrained knowledge check is an Int check - which is of course exactly what you would be rolling if the skill was usable untrained.

My resolution to that contradiction is that the fact that you don't have ranks in the skill gives you the -2 "poor situation/tools/preperation" generic modifier, but does not actually prevent you from making the check.

So if you have zero ranks in the skill, you still make a roll, you just have negative two ranks.

-Username17

I'm dependant on library open hours for my internet connnection for the next two weeks, so my posting may be more erratic during that time. Just a heads up.

And Frank, that houserule means all my knowledge rolls except Knowledge: History are two lower.

Frank wrote:My resolution to that contradiction is that the fact that you don't have ranks in the skill gives you the -2 "poor situation/tools/preperation" generic modifier, but does not actually prevent you from making the check.

So if you have zero ranks in the skill, you still make a roll, you just have negative two ranks.

Isn't having no ranks at all a penalty enough?

Anyways, these are my rolls with the -2 penalty:

Knowledge: Arcana = 18
Knowledge: Engineering = 14
Knowledge: Geography = 14
Knowledge: History = 14

Kirin wrote:Isn't having no ranks at all a penalty enough?

Considering that there is an ability that allows you to treat all knowledge skills as if you had .5 ranks in them - no it isn't. .5 ranks is exactly the same as no ranks except that you are considered "trained".

So being "untrained" actually has to do something, and the PHB doesn't say what that is. In one part of the book it says you can't make a check at all, and in another part of the book it says that you make the check at no penalty. So three interpretations exist:

1. You can't make a check.
2. You make a check at no penalty.
3. You make a check at some penalty.

I'm choosing three, which then brings up a couple of possible choices. A -2 penalty is the fallback generic penalty for when things aren't going your way for whatever reason. A -5 or -10 penalty is what you used to get for having a more general knowledge skill vs. a more specific one - i.e.: "Knowledge Demonology" gave you information on a 20 that "Knowledge Planes" would give you on a 25 or 30.

However, I am not going to be handing out -5 or -10 penalties, because I want people to actually know things. Ever.

-Username17

I got :

Arcana: 32
History: 10
Geography: 21
Engineering: 21

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=129228

Citlacoalt

Wizard 5/Divine Oracle 4/Initiate of the sevenfold veil 1
Str 6
Dex 15
Con 13
Int 20 (18 base +2 levels)
Wis 13
Cha 12

Fort: +3 (+2 base, +1 con)
Ref: +6 (+2 base, +2 dex, +2 weasel familiar)
Will: +11 (+10 base, +1 wis)
Bab: +4
HP: 4 + 5d4+4d6+10 (43 http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=137349)
AC: 12

1st: Skill focus (knowledge: arcana)
Human: Able Learner
Wizard: Scribe Scroll, Specialization (conjuration)
3rd: Spell focus (abjuration)
Wizard 5th: Craft Wonderous item
6th: Greater spell focus (abjuration)
9th: Skill focus (spellcraft)
Skills
Knowledge: Arcana +21 (13 ranks +5 int +3 skill focus)
Knowledge: nature +18 (13 ranks +5 int)
Knowledge: Engineering +18 (13 ranks +5 int)
Knowledge: History +18 (13 ranks +5 int)
Knowledge: geography +18 (13 ranks +5 int)
Spellcraft +21 (13 ranks +5 int +3 skill focus)
Concentration +14 (13 ranks +1 con)

Class features: Oracle Domain, scry bonus, prescient sense, trap sense +1, divination enhancement, uncanny dodge, warding 1/day, red veil, unimpeachable abjuration, and weasel familiar.

Spells per day (4+1/6+1/5+1/4+1/4+1/3+1) DC 15 + spell level

0th: all non-illusion/necromancy
1st:grease, identify, tenser’s floating disk, shield, mount, obscuring mist, comprehend languages, detect secret doors, low-light vision, feather fall
2nd:web, obscure object, locate object, fog cloud
3rd:dispel magic, stinking cloud, sleet storm, bands of steel
4th:dimension door, solid fog, charm monster, remove curse
5th:wall of force, cloudkill, freezing fog, break enchantment


Rolls:
Arcana: 35
Engineering: 19
Geography: 34
History: 21
http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=137365

Does anyone know a good site with info on the Aztec culture so I can write a believable background?

Ahem...could we perhaps get this going again? It might increase traffic to these boards as well.

While I rather hate play-by-post stuff with a passion (since they never get off the ground, or if they do, they fizzle rapidly), I was looking forward to vicariously following this adventure as the setting and hook sound amazingly cool.

What are the odds that said adventure could be played at something like... Gen Con? Too short a time what with everything else going on? I imagine this runs more like a lengthy campaign than a skinny module. If it were to be played then, I'd like to join up and play as either a Pokemon Trainer or Bonded Summoner.

We could even use an audio recorder to transcribe the exploits and put them up here (my old group used to do that to ensure posterity for hilarious or just mildly amusing gaming moments).

First post!

The only thing I can add

FrankTrollman wrote:"There are no Phoenixes to be had, though there is a Thunderbird (substitute Zapdos for Moltres)."

Actually, it would be Moltres, not Zapdos

Nexis at [unixtime wrote:1171453708[/unixtime]]First post!

The only thing I can add

FrankTrollman wrote:"There are no Phoenixes to be had, though there is a Thunderbird (substitute Zapdos for Moltres)."

Actually, it would be Moltres, not Zapdos

Not really.

Break it down like this. There are no fire birds, though there is an electricity bird (substitute electricty bird for the fire bird).

clikml wrote:There are no fire birds, though there is an electricity bird (substitute electricty bird for the fire bird).

The way that is phrased, your stating you already have a electricity bird in the game, and are substituting it for the fire bird. Which means you end up with a Moltres and/or firebird.

Nexis you actually 143rd post.

And thanks for opening up old wounds